Benefits of immigration?

[andycktm]

Mike C ,you've lost me there Explain?

 

[Rich]

Well said Smudger, my dads from county cork, he came across in the early forties, his first job(along with his three brothers) was a bouncer at a nightclub in Mosside in Manchester. he then met my mum and she taught him how to be a painter and decorator, and he passed those useful skills onto me, he paid his taxes all his life and now that he needs help with prostate cancer, the system that he helped to grow finds itself unable to help him in his hour of need, yet the government see's fit to let anyone and everyone into this country,once again I ask, do we as a nation benefit from mass immigration?
regards, Rich.

 

[Jake]

Oh, the rich irony.

 

[Rich]

I'm not sure I understand that Jake.
Rich.

 

[Digit]

I admit to a bias. My grandfather was driven from Ireland to find work here, my grandmother was a jewish refugee.
Immigration as an economic fact depends on the immigrants and their number. Increasing our population by several millions over a period of generations is not a problem, overnight? more than half the murders in London last year were by immigrants.
Such arguments as we are an ageing population and need young immigrants is so obviously economic rubbish that only a government minister could dream it up. What is supposed to happen when they reach retirement age?
What happens if they settle then bring their already aged parents here? Time is needed to assimilate people not spin.
Roy.

 

[Rich]

Lets go macro! take my household for instance, x amount coming in and x amount to be paid out,if the amount to be paid out exceeds the amount coming in then we have a problem, now take the country as a whole, and you can see what's coming, if you take more out of the kitty than what's going in then we have conflict, it's unneccessary, for Blair or Brown to state that immigrants are financially beneficial to this country when they are sending there wages back home is shxxe.
just my opinion you see.
Rich.

C'mon chaps if you have a view on this, speak up.

 

[momo]

You can't blame the immigrants for sending money home to poorer relatives can you, you would too,and what would you say to someone who told you you could not spend your earnings how you like, or moaned at you for buying that nice big BMW because they didn't have one ?.

I certainly would, the people to kick is the gov't we used to have a law didnt we stopping the export of UK currency didn't they remove it or such?.

 

[Digit]

No I don't blame them momo, but that does not alter the economic effects does it?

Roy.

 

[Rich]

Quite so Momo, I'd do the same, but the government tells us that the immigrants are a financial benefit to this country how can this be the case when their wages are going out of the country?

 

[momo]

Well logic tells me that if their working legaly they must be paying taxes etc and rent so they arent sending that home are they, its going in to the uk kitty as small as it may be, its still income ?

 

[Rich]

Momo, the majority of earners in this country save money and put it in the bank, that's what keeps the country going, the more money the banks have, then the more they can lend, need I say more?
Rich.

 

[Jake]

I'm not sure I understand that Jake.
Rich.

In the 1950s/60s, the equivalents of this thread were the "no blacks, no irish, no dogs" signs.

 

[Rich]

I'm sorry Jake, I still don't get it, are you saying I'm racist or what?
regards,
Rich.

 

[Digit]

As I have pointed out on this forum before, and elsewhere, each immigrant into this country robs the home country of that persons labour/skills. Blair boasted how successful the NHS had been in recruiting medical staff from Africa and Asia, and was roundly condemned by the UN as each represented a loss to their home country and was having a negative effect on AIDs in Africa.
During the 19C millions of Irish people emigrated to America, it took Ireland over 100 yrs, plus billions from the EU, to recover.
Currently Poland, Romania and Albania are attempting to get many of their citizens to return as their absence is having a negative effect on their economies.
Vast wealth from abroad has in the past simply resulted in massive inflation as it destabilises the economy.

 

[Digit]

I happen to know that Rich has a number of non English non British friends. If that is what you are suggesting Jake I submit that you are out of order.
The question was about the economic benefits, or otherwise, a subject that has been debated in the Lords and accepted by a government minister as a reasonable subject of debate.

Roy.

 

[momo]

Momo, the majority of earners in this country save money and put it in the bank, that's what keeps the country going, the more money the banks have, then the more they can lend, need I say more?
Rich.

Personally I would not agree to that to a large degree, look at northern rock, barings and others who lost all your money( not you personaly) their self serving institutions who care not one jot about you or me, and is it not their way to send or rather invest uk money abroad often losing a vast amount on their traidng, lets ask erm nick leeson his pov!. As for lending it out seems so far they havent done us brilliantly well even considering the state of the economy (or their own lifestyles).

As to the reference to 50's/60's earlier, lets not forget the gypseys who are always blamed for things regardless and are still hounded, or the dare I say it ( I hate to use it but its history and fact) jews in the 30's and not just in one country.

To blame the immigrant is a witch hunt for me, its like saying " my house is in bad order, blame joe over there, or the old saying a bad workman always blames his tools.

 

[Rich]

Momo, I am not blaming the immigrants at all, good luck to them if they can find a living anywhere in the world, my question was are they a benefit to this country?
ps in MY opinion, gypsies are ok, travellers are NOT.

 

[Digit]

The way these posts keep drifting off the question, which was about the supposed economic advantages of immigration, makes wonder if there is an advantage, after all the Lords have spoke!

Roy.

 

[Smudger]

And the answer has to be that some are and some aren't.
I don't see refugees doing much that benefits the rest of us, but the economic migrants do, almost by definition.

It was said during Question Time tonight that there are 600,000 job vacancies in the UK, and that many of the most valuable migrants are going home, as the Polish economy is on the up.

I do have some qualms. Our school is cleaned by a large company, and the workers are immigrant West Indians, South Americans or East Europeans. All groups seem to be isolated and very poor. I am worried that, even though they are doing jobs that most indigenous people would refuse, they are being seriously exploited.

On the other hand at the doc's yesterday I saw a young (20s) East European care worker with an old lady in a wheelchair. They had come from a local old people's home. The care and attention she gave to the old woman was amazing, and apparently completely genuine. I hope that when I am on my way out I have someone as caring to look after me.

I think what I am saying is that the question is a bad one - it can't really be answered. There are too many variables. The really useful ones are really useful! Others are a drain on the state.

I'm not sure we get to choose.

 

[momo]

Rich. I'm not saying you are, its a debate not a fight or insult challenge, I still say yes they are, if the country is run by incompetents or greed cats then you can expect it to get worse, look to zimbabwe for a template there, no matter how much income immigrants bring in if your gov't waste it on junkets and muppet statues or such then don't expect hospitals built or such, dont be surprised when they bankrupt us, if they then have to face your wrath for it look to them to place the blame elsewhere, easy targets are always sought by govt's.

Am I annoyed or angry that an immigrant will do a job I wont for less pay than what I wouldn't work for, no, am I scared he is going to send his money home and not keep it here, no, if my elected gov't can't keep its house in order I shouldn't blame the immigrant or say he is bankrupting my home. He is an asset, but the gov't is squandering his talent and then blaming him for its own stupidity.