Before I submit and buy a new PC. ...Help!

[Benchwayze]

Thanks again folks.

I know all about MAC.. I have my sights set on the big one, that's all combined with the monitor. Around £1300! Think that's a lot for what you get. Peace of mind is important, but what a price to have to pay for it, for something that really doesn't do much more than a PC.
However, a SCMS is more important right now, so I will struggle on until my PC dies, then replace with a MAC.

Obliged again folks
Regards
John

 

[Racers]

Hi, andypo

Dying breed? not in most workplaces.

And if they do die out then all the hackers will swtich to macs :shock:

So its best if you don't recommend them :wink:


Pete

 

[andypo]

When I said dying breed I meant in the home.
My work has looked to change over to osx but don't think they will get the support, that they constantly need from Microsoft. I tried to tell them they don't need it as they genuinely don't go wrong

 

[doorframe]

What's all the fuss about?

For nearly 20 yrs I've used only windows PC's. Started with 1, now up to 7. At one point we had about a dozen. We've got XP, Vista, Speedy Vista V3, Vista 64, 7 Ultimate, 7 64, all running at the moment. All internetted and networked, WIRED + WIRELESS. Some are general use, some are dedicated to specific uses. Basic machines up to quad core SLI machines. My 19 yr old son and his mates visit every dodgy site imaginable and download the dodgiest software (and lord knows what else).

Yes, we've had the odd virus over the years. So what? As long as your work is backed up it's no loss. Once in a blue moon we do have to reload a machine. Takes an hour. Then the machine runs at lightning speed again.

Mac???

No thanks.

Roy

 

[gus3049]

What's all the fuss about?

For nearly 20 yrs I've used only windows PC's. Started with 1, now up to 7. At one point we had about a dozen. We've got XP, Vista, Speedy Vista V3, Vista 64, 7 Ultimate, 7 64, all running at the moment. All internetted and networked, WIRED + WIRELESS. Some are general use, some are dedicated to specific uses. Basic machines up to quad core SLI machines. My 19 yr old son and his mates visit every dodgy site imaginable and download the dodgiest software (and lord knows what else).

Yes, we've had the odd virus over the years. So what? As long as your work is backed up it's no loss. Once in a blue moon we do have to reload a machine. Takes an hour. Then the machine runs at lightning speed again.

Mac???

No thanks.

Roy

But have you tried one? No insult intended but I have yet to meet someone that still preferred a PC after a few sessions on a good Mac.

 

[doorframe]

But have you tried one? No insult intended

No insult intended here also, but why would I want to?

I like the fact that 99.9% of the software out there is designed for PC's. AND 99.9% of the hardware likewise. I like to trawl the net and download whatever progs I like (for free) and know they will work. I'm no fan of Bill 'The Pauper' Gates and no money has ever come out of my pocket into his, including the OS's.

The very few people I know with Macs all use the same reasoning for owning one...'you can't get viruses'. A guy where I used to work insisted he had one so he could do video editing and make his own music, because that's how the proffesionals do it. WHOOPY-DOO!!! Like you can't do that on a PC? Even if I wanted to do that I wouldn't buy a Mac. I'd download the software and do it on my PC. He never edited anything nor played the first note of any tune! He just had to have what he perceived as the best, and what he thought would impress others.

I've nothing against Macs. If somebody feels the need to pay way over the odds for a status symbol and doesn't mind the limitations, then go for it.

Roy

 

[RogerS]

But have you tried one? No insult intended

No insult intended here also, but why would I want to?

I like the fact that 99.9% of the software out there is designed for PC's. AND 99.9% of the hardware likewise. I like to trawl the net and download whatever progs I like (for free) and know they will work. I'm no fan of Bill 'The Pauper' Gates and no money has ever come out of my pocket into his, including the OS's.

The very few people I know with Macs all use the same reasoning for owning one...'you can't get viruses'. A guy where I used to work insisted he had one so he could do video editing and make his own music, because that's how the proffesionals do it. WHOOPY-DOO!!! Like you can't do that on a PC? Even if I wanted to do that I wouldn't buy a Mac. I'd download the software and do it on my PC. He never edited anything nor played the first note of any tune! He just had to have what he perceived as the best, and what he thought would impress others.

I've nothing against Macs. If somebody feels the need to pay way over the odds for a status symbol and doesn't mind the limitations, then go for it.

Roy

You're missing the point, and ignoring total cost of ownership. You are also ignoring all the free bundled and highly integrated software that comes with the Mac. But then that is of little consequence to you since, by your own admission you are quite happy running pirated software. no money has ever come out of my pocket into his, including the OS's.

It is quite clear that you are very comfortable messing about with PC's, taking them apart, rebuilding them, reloading the software when it all goes **** up. Fine. That's your choice. But for many people they just want to turn on their computer and use it.

The term 'status symbol' implies a value-judgement being applied. We are all entitled to make our own value-judgements. What we are not entitled to do is belittle someone else's value-judgement. He just had to have what he perceived as the best, and what he thought would impress others

As for limitations, what specifically did you have in mind? Agree that Mac's aren't very good at playing games but then for many of us, life is too short.

 

[gus3049]

But have you tried one? No insult intended

No insult intended here also, but why would I want to?

I like the fact that 99.9% of the software out there is designed for PC's. AND 99.9% of the hardware likewise. I like to trawl the net and download whatever progs I like (for free) and know they will work. I'm no fan of Bill 'The Pauper' Gates and no money has ever come out of my pocket into his, including the OS's.

The very few people I know with Macs all use the same reasoning for owning one...'you can't get viruses'. A guy where I used to work insisted he had one so he could do video editing and make his own music, because that's how the proffesionals do it. WHOOPY-DOO!!! Like you can't do that on a PC? Even if I wanted to do that I wouldn't buy a Mac. I'd download the software and do it on my PC. He never edited anything nor played the first note of any tune! He just had to have what he perceived as the best, and what he thought would impress others.

I've nothing against Macs. If somebody feels the need to pay way over the odds for a status symbol and doesn't mind the limitations, then go for it.

Roy

But there are no limitations. You can run windoze on the Mac - no problem.

its the same old argument again and again. Why have a BMW when a Nissan will do the same job. Its the WAY that it does it. Plus some of us appreciate things that are designed well and a joy to use. Each to their own.

 

[doorframe]

Again, no insult intended.

No, I'm not missing the point.

Total cost of ownership? Your basic Mac desktop starts at around a grand. Your basic PC desktop (inc monitor) starts at around £300.

All the bundled software? They both come with loads of never-likely-to-be-used rubbish, and a few more usefull bits.

It is quite clear that you are very comfortable messing about with PC's, taking them apart, rebuilding them, reloading the software when it all goes **** up. Fine. That's your choice.

Yes... a big + for PC's.

But for many people they just want to turn on their computer and use it.

... and you can't do that with a PC?

The term 'status symbol' implies a value-judgement being applied. We are all entitled to make our own value-judgements. What we are not entitled to do is belittle someone else's value-judgement. He just had to have what he perceived as the best, and what he thought would impress others

Yes, my opinion... Status Symbols. Regards belittling my work colleague, I KNEW HIM, YOU DIDN'T. His nickname was 'TOPPER'. Well deserved!

As for limitations, what specifically did you have in mind? Agree that Mac's aren't very good at playing games but then for many of us, life is too short.

HAH! Wish I had the time! In fact, Macs can play games quite well... the few that are made compatible anyway. But you don't have a Mac to play games do you. You use your Macs in the same way others use PC's, IF you can find the compatible software, either downloads or over the counter. The point is... it's almost certainly available for the PC for free, much less so for the Mac. If the bundled stuff is all you ever need, then you've only the extortionate purchase price to worry about.

By your own admission you are quite happy running pirated software
That's a whole other argument, and only to demonstrate my lack of affection for Bill Gates.
BUT, it's a BIG bonus for PC's.

Roy

 

[myturn]

And, possibly predictably, some have turned the OP's plea for help into an argument.

In my view both PCs and MACs are a compromise and each have their advantages and disadvantages.

Now if you want a REALLY safe computer run a mainframe, but don't expect any namby-pamby GUI or WYSIWYG nonsense from it. 8)

 

[doorframe]

But there are no limitations. You can run windoze on the Mac - no problem.

Why spend a grand on a Mac to run Windows? I can do that on a £300 PC.


MICK... it's not an argument. It's a discussion. (hammer) Part of the problem is that I can't see how the price difference is justified. If they were priced evenly, then the Mac might be something I would consider.

EDIT. .... But I doubt it!! :lol: :lol:

Roy

 

[myturn]

MICK... it's not an argument. It's a discussion. (hammer) Part of the problem is that I can't see how the price difference is justified. If they were priced evenly, then the Mac might be something I would consider.

EDIT. .... But I doubt it!! :lol: :lol:
Roy

So it's a question of economics then, rather than whether one is actually better at doing a particular job than the other.

Like a Ford or a BMW, they both get you from A to B but for a different price and in a different way.

Some don't care about the different price, some don't care about the different way.

The only thing I will agree with is that Windows PC's are more prone to virus attacks but that is because:

a) Microsoft have left so many holes in their code it is like a Swiss cheese.
b) There are more Windows PCs than Macs so attacking them will produce more chance of a hit.

The reason there are more Windows PC's is because they are cheaper and Microsoft stayed ahead of the game. If it were the other way round I'm sure the same problem would apply to the MACs.

The history behind the development of the two platforms is very interesting and shows how Microsoft really kicked off with Windows 3.0/3.1.

 

[RogerS]

......
By your own admission you are quite happy running pirated software
That's a whole other argument, and only to demonstrate my lack of affection for Bill Gates.
BUT, it's a BIG bonus for PC's.

Roy

That's a whole other argument...what, stealing?

 

[gus3049]

I wonder why it is that no 'discussion' about Macs and PC's seems to avoid getting just a bit personal.

And personal choice is what its all about, whether its cars, televisions or style of clothes. What is right for me, clearly isn't for others./ All we evangelists can do is put our view. Horses can indeed only be shown the water.

 

[doorframe]

stealing?

Ok, that's twice now. If you want to make this personal I suggest we do it by PM.

 

[doorframe]

Having been called a thief by RogerS on a public forum, this discussion has been turned personal. I'll make a quick defense and then I'll contribute no more except by PM.

I'm accused of stealing Microsoft Operating Systems. What I said was 'no money has ever come out of my pocket into his, including the OS's'

I have never bought a new PC and I have never bought an OS. All the PCs I have ever owned have been 2nd hand cheap as chips with OS already installed. The original owners paid Mr Gates for the OS's. If there is any technicality regarding transferring of OS's then that is splitting hairs and hardly warrants being called a thief.

I would be pleased to accept RogerS's apology and forget it.

Roy

 

[Benchwayze]

Ref... Mainframe v Personal Computers.

Seeing that they now cram into a three-cubic foot case, the same amount of computing power, that used to occupy five rooms in a mansion, I suppose I can expect the odd bit of bother. Be it a Mac or PC. ! 8)

John :wink:

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

I love the MAC vs PC argument it's always fun to read.

I have supported MACs in a school I still have nightmares.
I currently support ~1500 PCs/Servers running everything from windows to unix and guess what, I have nightmares.

Now lets get 1 thing straight MACs CAN GET VIRUSES as can Windows as can Linux, you want Secure look at BSD (2 remote expliots out of the box in 10 years or something, cant remember which version though I think it was netBSD). That statement is not open for discussion. People will argue a trojan is not a virus well "technically" that is right but think of it in terms of "Your wife calls you while you are working on the tablesaw, you turn towards her and lose some fingers. Is it your fault or hers? Fact is it dosen't really matter you still are missing a few fingers". In reality I would prefer a virus over a trojan anyday as viruses typically delete data, and dont steal your credit card info.

MAC is a "status symbol". It's priced to be "exclusive", "better quality", etc.. Same with the iPhone and iPad, that is Apples marketing strategy.

Now on to which is better? depends what you want MAC is now running on intel chips so that closes the gap, if you want to video / picture edit I'd say MAC as they have the better tools / rep for that stuff.
Anything else get a PC and You want to play games or use [a larger selection of] comercial software get windows, You want to browse the web and want a huge selection of free apps get linux.

Personally, I play games and build my PC as a gaming rig so I like to have full hardware choice. I dislike vendor lock in, it's MY hardware not theirs I will install what I want on it.

Just for reference I have 3 PCs, 4 Laptops, 2 Servers (just need to get them from work) and a 24u Rack full of cisco gear and 1 G4. I think the G4 has been switched on twice, maybe...

just my 2 pence.

 

[gus3049]

I love the MAC vs PC argument it's always fun to read.

I have supported MACs in a school I still have nightmares.
I currently support ~1500 PCs/Servers running everything from windows to unix and guess what, I have nightmares.

Now lets get 1 thing straight MACs CAN GET VIRUSES as can Windows as can Linux, you want Secure look at BSD (2 remote expliots out of the box in 10 years or something, cant remember which version though I think it was netBSD). That statement is not open for discussion. People will argue a trojan is not a virus well "technically" that is right but think of it in terms of "Your wife calls you while you are working on the tablesaw, you turn towards her and lose some fingers. Is it your fault or hers? Fact is it dosen't really matter you still are missing a few fingers". In reality I would prefer a virus over a trojan anyday as viruses typically delete data, and dont steal your credit card info.

MAC is a "status symbol". It's priced to be "exclusive", "better quality", etc.. Same with the iPhone and iPad, that is Apples marketing strategy.

Now on to which is better? depends what you want MAC is now running on intel chips so that closes the gap, if you want to video / picture edit I'd say MAC as they have the better tools / rep for that stuff.
Anything else get a PC and You want to play games or use [a larger selection of] comercial software get windows, You want to browse the web and want a huge selection of free apps get linux.

Personally, I play games and build my PC as a gaming rig so I like to have full hardware choice. I dislike vendor lock in, it's MY hardware not theirs I will install what I want on it.

Just for reference I have 3 PCs, 4 Laptops, 2 Servers (just need to get them from work) and a 24u Rack full of cisco gear and 1 G4. I think the G4 has been switched on twice, maybe...

just my 2 pence.

I on the other hand have One Intel Mini, two G5's, two G4's, one G3 and one MacBook. Oh and one PC that hasn't been switched on for four or five years. There is nothing we can't do on our Macs that a Pc can do and do it it, for us that is, in a clunkier, less intuitive, more boring way. Having played with Windoze 7, I can see that Microsoft are finally learning to copy some things a bit better than they used to. When I use XP on the MIni, it takes me about five minutes to wonder why anyone would use it on a regular basis.

My nephew, as I mentioned earlier, is the digital manager for the biggest publishing house in Europe. He runs networks of thousands of Macs and PC's and uses a PC for motor racing games and shoot 'em ups only. For anything productive or otherwise enjoyable he uses Macs.

When I could afford to buy new I bought Macs. Now I can't I get his cast offs for free. So my Macs ain't expensive.

It really seems to be down to individual likes and dislikes. I will take quality over quantity every time. Its not JUST Apple's marketing strategy, in the use of all things there is an emotional experience as well as the practical. It comes from the feel, the way things work etc. I listen to music on what was a stupidly expensive Hi-Fi whereas some people seem happy with MP3s. I don't have a TV but some people seem to think that they have to have a room filling plasma screen - it still shows the same pictures I assume. Why do they 'need' it? Personal choice rarely has a simple reason for being, we all experience life in different ways and are a complicated result of our conditioning. I look at someone like Posh Becks who seems to think its important to look like a clothes horse. I wear jeans and T shirt and laugh out loud when I see her posing. But its her choice and I wouldn't say anything to her face or want to discuss her choices in detail on a forum.

What I don't understand is why the whole things gets so emotional. I don't see this argument about which washing machine you use or even which car (apart from drivers of the British Moro.s and W.nkers club of course, I mean, who would be stupid enough to fall for all that hype about what is just a car? Ultimate driving machine hah, give me an Alfasud)

I don't think I'll bother any more with this one but I rather suspect the subject might raise its ugly head again!!

 

[Benchwayze]

Apart from the usual surfing most of us indulge in, I use my PC mostly for writing, and keeping in touch on fora.

I process the occasional photograph and video, and I use Iplayer. I also watch my own DVDs. I have a couple of games I like, and that's about it. I guess a PC will suit me really. But it is a real pain when what just happened to me suddenly hits!

But I reinstalled, and now all I have to do is get Virgin media to set up on the main PC, and I am away again. Won't have to crouch over this laptop and strain my eyes on a 15" 'monitorette'!
Yes I know I can enlarge the text, but the shiny screen is another PITA as is finding the right angle to avoid solarising. Apart from that the laptop is OK!

Oh ... Almost forgot... It just won't run wireless. God knows why. Move it more than a foot from the router and it goes offline.
Real PITA!

John