Bandsaw shopping, £600 budget

[OscarG]

Hi chaps

I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Charnwood BS350 for about £580, I like everything about it except it doesn't have iron wheels, not sure how crucial that is though.

Are Metabo, Makita, Sheppach any good for bandsaws? I'll consider anything except RecordPower as..ahem..had a bit of a personal issue with them!

Any recommendations?!

 

[E-wan]

Is it possible for you to voice your experiences with record power as I was looking into one of their saber band saws, planer thicknesser and dust extractor

Thanks

Ewan

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[sunnybob]

I was about to recommend the aminster 350N that I bought 2 years ago for just over your budget but I've just checked and its 850 now (gulp).

Iron wheels give more torque to allow the blade to cut through thick material without slowing down. Alloy wheels make the motor work a bit harder. Wheel composition has no other effect on the deal.

Whatever you buy, expect to have do some work on it. They are all chinese made and will have sub standard bearings and belts ( I had to replace all of those on the axminster within the first 6 months).
The teething trouble aside, I am very happy with it now.

 

[OscarG]

Is it possible for you to voice your experiences with record power as I was looking into one of their saber band saws, planer thicknesser and dust extractor

Thanks

Ewan

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Sure. I had an issue with a BS250 bandsaw where the blade guard extrusion wasn’t parallel to blade making it impossible to accurately set side guides. I wrote to them asking for help. Long story short, they fobbed me off and said machine was fine. Eventually I got fed up and asked for a refund.

Good news: Record Power do honour their 5 year guarantee. I was 18 months in and I did get a full refund.

Bad news: it took 4 months of endless arguing, jumping through hoops to get it!

I promised myself I wouldn’t put myself through that stress again!

 

[sunnybob]

I can say that axminster have done whatever they could to help me with the problems I have had, working all the way up the chain of command and back down again.

Due to my location replacement machines are unfeasible, but I know that and am prepared to solve any problems that arise that cant be fixed by other means.

 

[Cordy]

Recently I purchased the Metabo 318; it cost £410 delivered
Link
Easy to assemble, quiet enough and collects most of the sawdust

Set the blade up as per Mr Snodgrass and it is excellent

The only thing I can't fathom out is how to slide the lower guide set-up further back to leave the gullet clear and in front of the bearing type thingies
The lower guides will adjust independently but not together
Can't be bothered to contact Metabo
Hope this helps

 

[sunnybob]

Cordy...

your description leaves something to be desired, but if I read that the way you wrote it, you cant get the bearings back far enough?

You need to find out, either from the makers or post pics here. The blade teeth absolutely MUST be in front of the side bearings when the blade is pushed all the way back.
If you push the blade back with a piece of wood untill it hits the back bearing, ALL of the teeth must be free and clear of said bearings, or youre just squeezing them shut and the blade is dead.

 

[custard]

I promised myself I wouldn’t put myself through that stress again!

But isn't that exactly what you're doing?

Charnwood have a lower reputation than either Record or Axminster for customer service, and aren't their warranty periods shorter as well?

Plus the machine you're looking at is laden with mug bait gimmicks, which all have to be paid for by cost savings in the stuff that really matters, like bearings, motor, fence mount, band wheels, drive belt, etc.

Or come at it from the other end, a genuinely commercial quality 14 or 15" bandsaw, such as the Hammer 3800 or Axminster Industrial 3501, costs in the region of £2000. Common sense says you must be giving up an awful lot of build quality to get something with a similar capacity for less than a third of the price. If I were taking a flyer like that then I'd want the security of a no questions refund in the all too likely eventuality that it's a lemon!

How does that expression go, fool me once...

 

[memzey]

At that sort of budget I’d be looking for a used startrite 352. As long as it isn’t a complete lemon you will in all likelihood have all the bandsaw an amateur will ever need.

Disclaimer; I purchased my single phase 352 a couple of years ago for £500ish delivered and it hasn’t missed a beat in that time. It’s an awesome tool. Whenever I go to Axminster I have a play with their machines (you have to, don’t you?) and the bandsaws feel distinctly flimsy in comparison.

 

[Stevebod]

Personally I would always prefer Record of Charnwood. Record seem to have the edge on Quality when I was looking. My choice for that sort of money would be the Record 300 with wheel kit and extra blades...

 

[transatlantic]

You got a full refund after 18 months? I think that is pretty good of record, even if you had to go through hoops to get it.

 

[custard]

To me this is where the line between "talking up your product" and "dodgy marketing" gets crossed. Here's the machine, the weight, and the maximum width bandsaw blade stated in the publicity.

Charnwood BS350 75Kg 25mm
Record Sabre 350 116Kg 19mm
Axi Ind.3501 145Kg 19mm
Hammer N3800 150Kg 19mm

I'm no engineer, but I smell a giant rat when the lightest and cheapest bandsaw can magically handle the widest bandsaw blade.

I'll hazard a guess that the Charnwood machine can theoretically accommodate an ultra thin 25mm wide bandsaw blade, say like one of those speciality blades that are used by butchers for cutting frozen meat. Bandsaw blades like that are so thin they feel like they're made from silver paper, and consequently are easy to tension to the required level.

But the unsuspecting newbie likely won't know anything about that, they'll assume the machine can take a regular thickness 25mm wide bandsaw blade, crank down on the tensioner and compress the spring until the coils are metal to metal (assuming the frame doesn't bend first) and congratulate themselves on their astute purchase.

Given that the spring will be the absolute cheapest available, and the frame only has 75Kg of metal available for rigidity, I wouldn't bet on a happy ending.

Charnwood aren't alone, there are plenty of catalogues out there packed with this sort of stuff. All designed to gull newbie woodworkers into thinking they can put their dream workshop together on a shoe string budget. You might argue that if people are mug enough to believe in unicorns then they get what they deserve. Maybe, but if forums like this are to be worth anything then surely there's a duty to point out some of this stuff?

 

[sunnybob]

Its a very steep learning curve with woodworking machinery. When I started the hobby from a point of complete ignorance I bought cheap because I had absolutely no concept of how bad "cheap" was.
It didnt take me long to find out.
The charnwood belt / disc sander that came with a test certificate and started running as soon as the machine was plugged into the wall. the only way to stop the machine was to press the start button, once released, it ran again. The NVR switch had been wired backwards. In months the top bearing shaft had worn away (the SHAFT, NOT the bearing!!!!).

The fox bandsaw that wouldnt cut even a wonky line untill I learnt enough to discover that the top wheel had a circlip missing and was moving along the shaft while running. This also had an A4 sheet printed saying that every machine had been hand tested by fox. I fought that one for over a year.

Even axminster doesnt escape. The 350N bandsaw that broke the drive belt and all four wheel bearings in the first 6 months of occasional use, and I bought this thinking I had upgraded!.
The 13 mm bench drill that had so many faults I'm not going to waste space by listing them here (there is a seperate thread on that)
There are others but youre getting the drift.

BUT, and it is a BIG but (one T), If I had priced up the best machines at the start, there is no way I would have sunk that much money into a hobby from scratch.
Its driven me mad trying to get a value for money machine (still looking) but I have had 4 years now of a hobby that I am really enjoying, and still learning about.

 

[memzey]

These are all good reasons why the second hand market is so appealing to amateur woodworkers. I appreciate the challenges in that regard your particular location brings with it bob but when in the UK, a very good bandsaw can be had for the kind of money the OP is talking about. I don’t know how much my 352 weighs but it has no problem tensioning a 3/4” blade and I’ve recently resawn 8” wide boards of oak with no bother whatsoever. Something that solid and dependable from new would cost a pretty penny I’m sure (think hammer N4400 or thereabouts).

 

[loftyhermes]

I can resaw 8" Oak with a 1/2" Tuffsaw Supertuff Fastcut blade on my second hand Charnwood W730 no problem either.

 

[memzey]

I can resaw 8" Oak with a 1/2" Tuffsaw Supertuff Fastcut blade on my second hand Charnwood W730 no problem either.

Good stuff! I’ve never used that machine so can’t comment either way and was not suggesting that the only good second hand machines were Startrite - I do not think that would be true at all. You still need to be on the lookout for lemons in the used market of course but have at least the possibility of buying industrial strength kit for the price of a new hobbyist machine. I do know that my 352 is one of many across the UK still giving good service after many years (40 odd in my case). Fingers crossed yours also lasts as well.

 

[OscarG]

I promised myself I wouldn’t put myself through that stress again!

But isn't that exactly what you're doing?

Charnwood have a lower reputation than either Record or Axminster for customer service, and aren't their warranty periods shorter as well?

I take your point, but my experience of Record's customer service was abysmal, even after all that arguing when they finally decided to refund me, they still messed me about for another couple of months, all for a poxy £300, that was basically their last chance to retain me as a customer. Out of general principle I wouldn't spend another penny with them again.

Plus the machine you're looking at is laden with mug bait gimmicks, which all have to be paid for by cost savings in the stuff that really matters, like bearings, motor, fence mount, band wheels, drive belt, etc.

Really?! I thought the dust tray seemed a good idea!

 

[OscarG]

Recently I purchased the Metabo 318; it cost £410 delivered
Link
Easy to assemble, quiet enough and collects most of the sawdust

Set the blade up as per Mr Snodgrass and it is excellent

The only thing I can't fathom out is how to slide the lower guide set-up further back to leave the gullet clear and in front of the bearing type thingies
The lower guides will adjust independently but not together
Can't be bothered to contact Metabo
Hope this helps

Thank you! I'll have a good look at that machine.

 

[OscarG]

I can resaw 8" Oak with a 1/2" Tuffsaw Supertuff Fastcut blade on my second hand Charnwood W730 no problem either.

How long have you had the machine? You happy with quality of it?

 

[custard]

Really?! I thought the dust tray seemed a good idea!

There are two problems with a dust tray.

The first problem is that it encourages the user to do without dust extraction, it implies it's okay to run the machine and then vac out the dust tray afterwards. That's poor practise because the dust and chips are getting embedded into the band wheel tyres, attacking the bearings, and wicking the lubricants away from where they're supposed to be. A bandsaw of this size really needs an airflow of about 1500 cu m/hr. If the hobbyist has no alternative but to run without dust extraction then at the very least, after every use, open the machine's door and thoroughly vac out the insides, taking particular care to remove the dust and chips that will settle on the tyres after the machine is switched off. Incidentally, decent bandsaws generally have brushes mounted inside to sweep the tyres clean, I had a quick glance at the exploded diagram and couldn't spot any. Once dust gets embedded into the tyres the blade starts slipping, that requires additional tension, and then you're on a downward spiral towards the machine becoming scrap. The manufacturer and retailer couldn't care though because this all takes a year or two, so it'll be out of warranty by then.

The second problem is broader in nature. Take off all the fripperies, like the work light, the two lugs for securing the mitre fence, the dust tray, the tension quick release mechanism, etc; and invest those savings on cast iron dynamically balanced wheels, better quality sealed bearings with dust shrouds, a thicker frame, more frame re-inforcement, a better quality drive belt, a heavier fence mounting block, etc. In other words the dust tray is a flashing red light that here's a machine designed to gull newbies with gimmickry.