Assault!

[Jenx]

Its all about 'balance' eh ? .. thats what we don't have now.

A firm hand where its necessary... and a gentle one, where that is more 'fitting'.

I'm convinced that people ( as in the bairns ) would respond, and indeed did do historically, far better under those sort of 'sensible' conditions.

:wink:

 

[Digit]

Granted that these things happen Phil and Lurker, but was not this event an ideal time perhaps to explain that sort of thing to the class in general rather than bawling the boy out in front of the class then arranging his suspension 'pending a full investigation'?
If the teacher is overruled then his standing, and ability to control his class, could be seriously compromised.
Perhaps some lessons in man management are in order,- for the teacher!

Roy.

 

[Gary]

Granted that these things happen Phil and Lurker, but was not this event an ideal time perhaps to explain that sort of thing to the class in general rather than bawling the boy out in front of the class then arranging his suspension 'pending a full investigation'?
If the teacher is overruled then his standing, and ability to control his class, could be seriously compromised.
Perhaps some lessons in man management are in order,- for the teacher!

Roy.

Your grandson has only got himself to blame as it was him who flicked it. Luckily for him he missed and didn't take someones eye out. If he had been the victim of an eye injury due to someones elses actions I feel you would have a different view!

 

[Digit]

As I am blind in the left eye Gary due to an event caused by another I rather think I do know how I would feel, and I stand by what I said.
I am not defending my grandson, I am simply pointing out that, IMO, the teacher has over reacted, and if overruled will be weakened by his action.
Based on my own vision loss I would have handled it in the manner that I espoused earlier.

Roy.

 

[Gary]

Well in that case you for one should have taught him the consequences of such reckless actions from an early age.
I doubt it was the art teacher who suspended your grandson. More like someone further up the chain. Discipline in schools is bad enough these days so where do you draw the line. Home made dart fired from empty Bic pens as was the thing when I was at school. If he hadn't broken school rules he would have been there today and remember the foundations of all good discipline start at home. :wink:

 

[Digit]

Check my post gary, I didn't say the art teacher suspended him, and yes, if hadn't broken the rules etc I agree.
None of that do I deny, I simply pointed out that options were available to the teacher.
We either have to assume that the boy knew of the danger and ignored it or the teacher could, as I suggested, have used the occasion for a safety lecture.
Teachers are complaining about being overruled on disciplinary matters, that being so a measured response might have been more effective for both parties.
I speak with some years experience of practical man management and at 13 the boy can learn, if taught properly.

Roy.

 

[big soft moose]

Mate now gets his tyres slashed weekly, his wife who has MS and is confined to a wheelchair cannot out the house after shcool hours, cause this kid and his pals STONE her .. she has been hospitalised because of it and the injuries sustained on two occasions that I know about.. possibly more. ( :shock: ),
Has had every window in the frontage of his house broken at least once, some of them twice , car "keyed" ,

.

In this case it sounds like the "kids" are totally out of control - in my view the "quiet word" (for which i would read a good kicking) is the only possible solution. The police probably cant do anything that this bunch of scrotes would fear anyway.

a bunch of hairy ass bikers with baseball bats on the other hand...

 

[Digit]

a bunch of hairy ass bikers with baseball bats on the other hand...

Names and addresses available if required! :lol:

Roy.

 

[Gary]

at 13 the boy can learn, if taught properly.

Roy.

Well let's hope he learns from this. :wink:

 

[Jake]

The other difference is that in your day, your parents and family would no doubt have stood unquestioningly behind the authority of the school to discipline the child as they saw fit (using the methods of their day).

Unfortunately, these days the general reaction is the opposite, and it's all "My little Johnny can do no wrong".

 

[woodbloke]

"Old School" on this one ....
this country has got horrendous problems with its youth now... undeniable.

Much of what you say has an ring of truth to it, but it's unfair to tarnish all youth with that generalisation. I'd just add a rider that there are poblems with some youff now :wink: - Rob

 

[Harbo]

The first school I went to, you started at age 4 and unless you passed your 11 Plus or 13 Plus you stayed until you were 15.
Aged 7 - 12" wooden ruler across palms (by women teacher) because I giggled when somebody farted!
Aged 8 - plimsoll on backside
Aged 9 upwards - Cane (on hands or backside) if sent outside and spotted by Head doing his rounds. Also board ruler on backside given by teachers themselves. Board rubber frequently thrown at pupils by teacher.
During morning assembly, if picked out - dragged to the front, knelt down with hands on stage edge - Head then beat time on your knuckles with large rod during the hymns.
This was a State school and nobody really complained about it, but you were never cheeky to a teacher. What ever they said you did or else you were for it!
Thakfully I escaped at 13 to a school that only used the board ruler !!

Rod

 

[user 5053]

Bring back the cat!

 

[Jenx]

"Old School" on this one ....
this country has got horrendous problems with its youth now... undeniable.

Much of what you say has an ring of truth to it, but it's unfair to tarnish all youth with that generalisation. I'd just add a rider that there are poblems with some youff now :wink: - Rob

Absolutely . Rob you are quite right... point taken..
There are indeed some great youngsters in places... I was 'generalising', and your 'correcting' is quite right.

 

[graham]

Jenx,
Just read your story of your mate and was wondering are you from Dundee? Just curious as there does not seem to be that many around these parts in here.

Regards,

Graham

 

[lurker]

Jenx,
Just read your story of your mate and was wondering are you from Dundee? Just curious as there does not seem to be that many around these parts in here.

Regards,

Graham

people are not going to ADMIT to living in Dundee :lol:

 

[Jenx]

Hello there ! Aye, originally... well Alyth, out in the 'boondocks' ..

Not now though... Now i live up in deepest darkest Aberdeenshire, just outside Ellon.


Sister's still down there though.. she works at the Crop place at Invergowrie, and still lives in Alyth... so I do make the odd trip or two 'home' ...

My In-laws are in Meigle ...

I worked in the town for many years.. with Pitkerro first .. Then GR&R Ross's up in 'Beechie', which went out of business a little while ago...
then for a long time with Brown & Tawse on the Kingsway.
( It was them that moved me up here, back in 1995 ).

Was a confirmed follower of the Arabs with a season ticket in the 'George Fox' for years.. even after I moved... but eventually got sick of 'nothings-up' draws with Hearts and Partick Thistle , so I stopped going and let it lapse.

You from Dundee then, Graham ?

8) 8) 8) 8)

 

[pren]

Jenx - a lot of what you say sounds disturbingly familiar My wife's a teacher in a local secondary school. She's been teaching for 3years now.

In her first week of teaching, she was pinned against the wall by a 13yr old boy brandishing a pair of scissors.

On more than one occasion, she's had heavy objects thrown at her from the class whilst she was writing on the whiteboard.

Some of her pupils are on 'behavioural contracts' as they have 'behavioural problems'. If they get agitated, they shout, scream and (frequently) throw things including chairs across the classroom. Their 'punishment': walk around the school to cool off ....


So. Why doesnt my dear wife do anything to discipline these kids? She (along with all new teachers AFAIK) receive lengthy lectures on just how many ways there are to either face disciplinary action: lose their jobs or wind up with a criminal record.

If she shouts at a pupil in a way that might be considered 'demeaning';

If she physically touches a pupil for any reason other than to prevent imminent, serious harm to others;

If she uses red pen/crosses to indicate poor performance;

................................

When I went to school (late '80's/'90's) there was no physical punishment but I remember being dragged bodily from the classrooms on a few occasions to have a teacher screaming insults and blue murder at me, inches from my face.

That worked on me and, AFAIK, no teachers were ever sacked for it.

With teaching today, teachers practically need to have a team of lawyers sat in the back of classes, furiously cross checking all and any actions a teacher takes against an endless list of scenarios, the vast majority of which will see the teacher in deepest, darkest doodoo.

And for the naughty kids?

They can get away with damn near anything, with near impunity! In a lot of cases, where the parents are called in, the typical response to wee johnnys misdemeanours is: 'You're the teachers - its your problem. I can't control him/her'.

:evil:

I do support the view that not all kids are bad. I was part of the Air Training Corps for 15years. Respect was earned, you came to discipline yourself and punishment was harsh yet constructive.

I did notice that there is a small, hard-core of badly behaved kids in schools that disrupt the others. They do, however, tend to make more of a scene than the good majority and thus get noticed more.


Anyway .... i'm just ranting now. :roll: :lol:

Cheers.
Bryn

 

[Rich]

I think it's fair to say that we are ALL reasonable folk on this forum, if we are a typical cross section of society and we all agree on Pren's last post, then what planet are the lawmakers and rulemakers living on?

Rich.

 

[Maia28]

I think it's fair to say that we are ALL reasonable folk on this forum, if we are a typical cross section of society and we all agree on Pren's last post, then what planet are the lawmakers and rulemakers living on?

Rich.

That's a good point Rich.

One of the problem with removing the poorly behaved children from a school is that they just end up somewhere else. Do it enough times and the LEA will decide that they should not be removed again. In my wife's experience this has involved a severely disruptive child being moved from a large(ish) primary to a very small one with mixed-age classes. The resulting disruption was on a scale never before seen there. Some of the nicest youngsters you could meet were pushed over the edge by the waste of DNA placed amongst them and, of course, ended up in trouble. Nowadays this is all recorded as part of their education record and will follow them for a long time. It also affects their learning and self-esteem. Our leaders want to see more of this by farming out the most disruptive kids to more schools.

There's something terribly wrong in the system that makes the good ones pay for the problems caused by the bad ones, while the bad ones get rewards that are note even on offer to the good ones (and yes, I use good and bad deliberately there). The scale is so skewed that the trivial acts get punished while the severe ones get passed by. It all makes the reportable statistics look good.

Andy (not cynical at all)