Ashley Isle's Chisels - So Dissapointed

[AndyT]

I recently purchased a set of AI chisels, I haven’t checked if they are square. I did notice that the width is slightly off on each chisel.

e.g. the 3mm is 2.7mm wide . Majority seem to be 0.2 - 0.5mm off the stated sizes. Would be interested to see what peoples view is on this, is it reasonable to accept the size differences for hand made chisels?

My view is that it's entirely reasonable. Except for mortice chisels, where you work to the actual width of the chisel, I can't think of an application where the exact width matters.

 

[lurker]

I've never spent more than £50 on a pair of shoes.

John

You must be a damn good woodworker then according to some folks here!

 

[D_W]

British manufacturing really can't afford to be picky with customer base at this juncture especially with EU and US trade up for negotiation in the coming years.

I hear you. As it is in regard to the AI stuff, though, the retailers on this side of the ocean just can't keep it in stock. If they have trouble moving some of the stock in the UK, they just need to put it on a boat and send it over here.

The retail price here is actually more without any VAT than it is there with VAT. Without VAT, the difference is greater. I paid effectively $144 for a set of 6 (did have to pay the equivalent of about $26 to ship them from the UK, or something like that, but shipping here would've been half of that, anyway). The two retailers carrying them here ask $190 and $207 for the same set. The retailer who asks $207 for them is constantly out of stock. Point being that they're moving them fast over here despite a much higher price.

I've gotten sets from continental europe in the past - stubai and hirsch, and while both of those makers seem to do fine with chrome vanadium-ish steel (i like the stubai quite a lot, actually), they are not as geometrically wonderful as the AIs - the hirsch aren't even close.

 

[D_W]

I recently purchased a set of AI chisels, I haven’t checked if they are square. I did notice that the width is slightly off on each chisel.

e.g. the 3mm is 2.7mm wide . Majority seem to be 0.2 - 0.5mm off the stated sizes. Would be interested to see what peoples view is on this, is it reasonable to accept the size differences for hand made chisels?

For hand ground, that's fine. I didn't even think to measure mine, and probably never would.

Japanese chisels often vary a little bit, too, even very expensive ones.

I don't know if the same term applies over there as here, but here some people like to do what they refer to as slaving, which is matching chisels and plow plane irons, etc. It might be a problem for that, but those folks must be working with new plow planes, as the old irons aren't that consistent, either.

 

[cowfoot]

Not all cars, I haven't had the slightest problem with my new Bentley Continental GT Speed Convertible (hammer)

Rear view mirror was out a couple of degrees on mine, sent it straight back...

 

[iNewbie]

Problem is, he's using a public forum to denigrate a manufacturer over something that isn't really a serious fault. That's something that deserves a corrective post, I think - so I weighed in.[/color][/b]

Serious enough for the retailer to take them back and not tell the buyer to suck-it-up...

.....which reflects great credit on Classic Hand Tools and their approach to customer complaints. As a bonus, their client has now spent an extra £80 with them, and will no doubt consider using their services again. (Disclaimer - I've used Classic Hand Tools several times, with very quick service and never had need to complain.) The customer exercised his right to return goods bought by mail order, and the vendor acted quite positively.

However, that doesn't alter the fact that the customer then left a rather negative post about the chisels on this public forum, for something that many of consider to be trivial, and within the woodworker's normal scope of activities to adjust to their taste. That's excessively harsh on Ashley Iles.

I've used Classic Hand Tools. They're very good. Whether he's spent another £80 is irrelevant. They feel he had a justifiable case to return those goods. Adjusting to a woodworkers normal scope obviously isn't in their sales!

Its your opinion his words are harsh, you certainly aren't speaking for me and I doubt countless others. I don't want to state the obvious but its a public forum (within the boundaries of the owners consent) and people will say things other many may not agree with. Me, I'd agree to disagree and move on - as I will be, now.

 

[D_W]

It's a chuckle that there is a mix of both sides of this, which is better than someone just getting piled on by anyone.

Sort of like an amish barn dance, too - two sides on each end of the room and never shall they meet in the middle. Of course, that's a fake statement, the amish don't allow dancing.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I've used Classic Hand Tools. They're very good. Whether he's spent another £80 is irrelevant. They feel he had a justifiable case to return those goods. Adjusting to a woodworkers normal scope obviously isn't in their sales!

Its your opinion his words are harsh, you certainly aren't speaking for me and I doubt countless others. I don't want to state the obvious but its a public forum (within the boundaries of the owners consent) and people will say things other many may not agree with. Me, I'd agree to disagree and move on - as I will be, now.

The customer exercised his right to return goods bought by mail order. The seller acted correctly - and indeed, went above and beyond. We've no idea what advice the seller may or may not have offered the customer, and it's none of our business anyway.

However, the customer then left a negative post on a public forum about a certain manufacturer's product without - as far as I can tell - first contacting them for advice or giving them any opportunity to do anything about the situation. Thus, this thread will come up in the future when someone seeks information about AI chisels, painting them in a negative light, without AI having had the chance to do anything about it. That's a bit out of order, in my view, so I'm standing up for AI. I use some of their chisels, and have absolutely no problem with them.

 

[lurcher]

wake up and get in the shop and sort it man some people on here are so busy moaning i think they must be archair woodworkers some people should not have tools use your own skill to sharpen them without a damn jig learn learn that hat we did a apprentices so you got to do it or you will never learn to do anything so you paid for em enjoy em its only steel .
donnt forget though when using your claw hammer use the cheeks on the chisel .

 

[Petey83]

I've used Classic Hand Tools. They're very good. Whether he's spent another £80 is irrelevant. They feel he had a justifiable case to return those goods. Adjusting to a woodworkers normal scope obviously isn't in their sales!

Its your opinion his words are harsh, you certainly aren't speaking for me and I doubt countless others. I don't want to state the obvious but its a public forum (within the boundaries of the owners consent) and people will say things other many may not agree with. Me, I'd agree to disagree and move on - as I will be, now.

The customer exercised his right to return goods bought by mail order. The seller acted correctly - and indeed, went above and beyond. We've no idea what advice the seller may or may not have offered the customer, and it's none of our business anyway.

However, the customer then left a negative post on a public forum about a certain manufacturer's product without - as far as I can tell - first contacting them for advice or giving them any opportunity to do anything about the situation. Thus, this thread will come up in the future when someone seeks information about AI chisels, painting them in a negative light, without AI having had the chance to do anything about it. That's a bit out of order, in my view, so I'm standing up for AI. I use some of their chisels, and have absolutely no problem with them.

I was not going to comment again on this thread but given you sir have pretty much consistently put words in my moth and totally missed the point of what I have tried to say and subsequently explain I am going to correct you

To correct your main gripe - I have not once said AI make a rubbish product or anything along those lines, what i have said is i was disappointed with what I received based on what I was expecting to get. My expectations were generated from internet research as thats the only place I have to research stuff.

In regards to your somewhat mis guides and simplistic take on what tried to demonstrate with the shoes example - I clearly was not trying to do a like for like comparison of a £600 shoe to a £25 chisel. What I was trying to point out is both brands sit in the same sort of level in their respective markets and both make a hand made product. If it helps I can give you a closer example - 4 years ago I bought a decent set of kitchen knives, they are hand forged in Japan from laminated white paper steel and cost about £100 - £150 per knife. Now before you get all excited I am again not drawing a direct pound for pound comparison what I am doing is given an example of another hand made product but one that this time sits near the bottom end of their respective market. Now these knives are all hand ground and honed on Japanese water stones and came to me with a highly polished hair popping edge. Now being white paper steel they are not without issue - the developed a patina quite quickly BUT given i was advised of this before buying I new what to expect and was happy to accept it.

Anyway enough is enugh - this is the internet, you are all strangers and its a lovely evening so I am sure i can find something better to do with my evening.

 

[G S Haydon]

"it's learning for them just how incapable some of their customers are, but that's just reality when the customer base shifts to more people who do more magazine reading than woodworking"

Indeed! Read somewhere there were some width variations too!

To put it bluntly, which happens pretty quick to edge tools, if people are stuck on these issues then getting the most out of hand tools will elude them very quickly. If anyone is buying hand tools with calipers and engineer's tools to check things they don't even understand then good luck to them. You'll never meet everyone's expectations, however AI exceed mine by some margin. There again I've made my living making things from wood for 20 years, so what would I know.

What's interesting, that even when experienced woodworkers, both amateur and pro say broadly "don't worry, you're barking up the wrong tree", there is still not an acknowledgement that you didn't know what you were complaining about.

Watch out for the LN's, you'll find the handles are likely to fall off. Not sure they mention that when they sell them, make sure you report it to LN when you do, you'll be asked to apply hairspray to them. You'll also find you find it difficult to grind shallow angles for paring due to them being A2 steel. Make sure you report it to LN, they'll tell you not to hone below 35deg.

 

[ColeyS1]

Petey83, why do they need to be 100% square please ? Please ? Ive never come across the need for this accuracy before, even if it is easy to achieve. Is it something you've read somewhere ?
Thanks

Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[D_W]

A 20 pound chisel and a 600 pound shoe pair are not remotely close to the same place in their respective markets. that's the point.

Might be comparable to a chisel six times as expensive, but to get a chisel of that cost, you have to go japanese - or possibly some one-off type maker like blue spruce. From a standpoint of anything other than the quality of the turning, I have no idea why blue spruce chisels are that expensive - they just look like bar stock steel cut and stabbed into a handle without a bolster, so that's a bad comparison. Stick with the well regarded japanese makers who do production work - like Ouchi.

You pay a lot for the finish work in ouchi chisels that you won't have to pay for with AI chisels. They cost at least four times as much.

 

[Petey83]

Petey83, why do they need to be 100% square please ? Please ? Ive never come across the need for this accuracy before, even if it is easy to achieve. Is it something you've read somewhere ?
Thanks

Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

apparently they don't but i had been told they should be.

perhaps I should sell all my tools and give up woodworking and trying to learn and leave it to the arrogant elitist's

 

[Petey83]

A 20 pound chisel and a 600 pound shoe pair are not remotely close to the same place in their respective markets. that's the point.

Might be comparable to a chisel six times as expensive, but to get a chisel of that cost, you have to go japanese - or possibly some one-off type maker like blue spruce. From a standpoint of anything other than the quality of the turning, I have no idea why blue spruce chisels are that expensive - they just look like bar stock steel cut and stabbed into a handle without a bolster, so that's a bad comparison. Stick with the well regarded japanese makers who do production work - like Ouchi.

You pay a lot for the finish work in ouchi chisels that you won't have to pay for with AI chisels. They cost at least four times as much.

again you are utterly missing the point - you are focusing on monetary value as opposed to trying to grasp each products respective markets and their place in it.

 

[ColeyS1]

Petey83, why do they need to be 100% square please ? Please ? Ive never come across the need for this accuracy before, even if it is easy to achieve. Is it something you've read somewhere ?
Thanks

Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

apparently they don't but i had been told they should be.

perhaps I should sell all my tools and give up woodworking and trying to learn and leave it to the arrogant elitist's

No, you should start using them instead of just reading about how it should be. No amount of reading will make up for hands on experience. You're keen, you're passionate about woodworking, don't get bogged down in reading endless reviews, just get out and start making things !
I've been guilty of this myself. I've read and read and read, even created imaginery problems that don't exist, instead of just getting on with it. You'll only damage a chisel by hitting it with a hammer and splitting the handle, or by overheating the end. Dipping it in water frequently will prevent this and obviously using a mallet. Sure it'd be nice if the grind looked perfect and the honing looked square, but I'm willing to guess 90% of the time it won't effect it's use. Just keep it sharp ! If that means freehand honing it for 10 seconds every 20 minutes, than so be it. Don't put off sharpening because you haven't got the time, or the necessary jigs to achieve a 100% square hone.
In a few years you may realise how unimportant having them arrive 100% square was.
Buy a 25mm one to use and abuse, grind it, grind the heck out of it, treat it like a cheap chisel that needs working hard- then you'll appreciate how good a chisel it is, how well it holds an edge, how comfortable it is to use and how much you wanted to beat the heck out of it, but how it just keeps going without missing a beat.
Love my Ai chisels, I'm proud to own and use them on an almost daily basis !
Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[D_W]

A 20 pound chisel and a 600 pound shoe pair are not remotely close to the same place in their respective markets. that's the point.

Might be comparable to a chisel six times as expensive, but to get a chisel of that cost, you have to go japanese - or possibly some one-off type maker like blue spruce. From a standpoint of anything other than the quality of the turning, I have no idea why blue spruce chisels are that expensive - they just look like bar stock steel cut and stabbed into a handle without a bolster, so that's a bad comparison. Stick with the well regarded japanese makers who do production work - like Ouchi.

You pay a lot for the finish work in ouchi chisels that you won't have to pay for with AI chisels. They cost at least four times as much.

again you are utterly missing the point - you are focusing on monetary value as opposed to trying to grasp each products respective markets and their place in it.

No, I'm not. AI chisels are not in that segment of the market. That's where we disagree. I'm not sure that LN chisels even are - I think they are not.

AI chisels are in the segment of the market where you'd find overseas factory made shoes in the 100 pound range. Being mainstream items, shoes just got overseas faster - they have no boutique novelty. If AI were in the range of what you're talking about, or something like AE Cordovan, they would be very carefully finished by hand such that there would be no mill marks on them. They are a utilitarian set of chisels that has a grind aspect that we like because it is almost non-existent, but they are not lying in a category where people expect cosmetic perfection like you might on a chisel that's made by a one-off boutique maker.

Shoes are a terrible comparison, anyway, as nobody is ever expected to do any setup on shoes to wear them, with the possible exception of lacing them. Not even on shoes sold at the discounters here for $20.

 

[shed9]

I blame the parents.....

 

[Lons]

Not all cars, I haven't had the slightest problem with my new Bentley Continental GT Speed Convertible (hammer)

Footballers cars and they seem to have plenty of problems with them. :roll: Don't know if you have one or it's a wind up, I'd have an Aston Martin before that any day but it happens that a mate who's loaded bought one 2 years ago ( not the convertable) ) and ditched it after 6 months 'cos it was in the garage more than at home, Swapped it for an Audi R8.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I've used Classic Hand Tools. They're very good. Whether he's spent another £80 is irrelevant. They feel he had a justifiable case to return those goods. Adjusting to a woodworkers normal scope obviously isn't in their sales!

Its your opinion his words are harsh, you certainly aren't speaking for me and I doubt countless others. I don't want to state the obvious but its a public forum (within the boundaries of the owners consent) and people will say things other many may not agree with. Me, I'd agree to disagree and move on - as I will be, now.

The customer exercised his right to return goods bought by mail order. The seller acted correctly - and indeed, went above and beyond. We've no idea what advice the seller may or may not have offered the customer, and it's none of our business anyway.

However, the customer then left a negative post on a public forum about a certain manufacturer's product without - as far as I can tell - first contacting them for advice or giving them any opportunity to do anything about the situation. Thus, this thread will come up in the future when someone seeks information about AI chisels, painting them in a negative light, without AI having had the chance to do anything about it. That's a bit out of order, in my view, so I'm standing up for AI. I use some of their chisels, and have absolutely no problem with them.

I was not going to comment again on this thread but given you sir have pretty much consistently put words in my moth and totally missed the point of what I have tried to say and subsequently explain I am going to correct you

To correct your main gripe - I have not once said AI make a rubbish product or anything along those lines, what i have said is i was disappointed with what I received based on what I was expecting to get. My expectations were generated from internet research as thats the only place I have to research stuff.

In regards to your somewhat mis guides and simplistic take on what tried to demonstrate with the shoes example - I clearly was not trying to do a like for like comparison of a £600 shoe to a £25 chisel. What I was trying to point out is both brands sit in the same sort of level in their respective markets and both make a hand made product. If it helps I can give you a closer example - 4 years ago I bought a decent set of kitchen knives, they are hand forged in Japan from laminated white paper steel and cost about £100 - £150 per knife. Now before you get all excited I am again not drawing a direct pound for pound comparison what I am doing is given an example of another hand made product but one that this time sits near the bottom end of their respective market. Now these knives are all hand ground and honed on Japanese water stones and came to me with a highly polished hair popping edge. Now being white paper steel they are not without issue - the developed a patina quite quickly BUT given i was advised of this before buying I new what to expect and was happy to accept it.

Anyway enough is enugh - this is the internet, you are all strangers and its a lovely evening so I am sure i can find something better to do with my evening.

The title of this thread - which you started - is "Ashley Iles Chisels - So Disappointed". That's the damage done to AI's reputation, right there. Reading the first post reveals that the 'disappointment' is something utterly trivial.

On price comparison, Asley Iles Bevel-Edged chisels compare closely with Marples splitproof and Stanley Sweetheart;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss ... 7XLDT99N0A

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss ... F9SOIZMYFP

Neither of those brands are poor chisels - far from it - but they are not in the same bracket as bespoke shoes, bespoke chisels or fine Japanese knives. Ashley Iles make a hand-made chisel that competes with them on price, but for cabinet bench work, knocks them into a cocked hat on quality.