Ashley Isle's Chisels - So Dissapointed

[D_W]

Petey, what are your options over there for tracking down a CBN wheel? At one point over here, we could get a wheel with a rolled edge for $125, and though I had to think a little bit before buying one, I was losing diameter off of a $50 pink wheel fast enough to know that over time, the CBN wheel will be cheaper.

I'm not sorry I did. CBN transfers heat at a much higher percentage than alumina. The grind heat with alumina is mostly left in the tool, because the alumina wheels don't absorb it. Since CBN transfers heat, a lot of the heat when grinding with CBN ends up in the massive aluminum or steel base wheel. You could still burn something with CBN if you wanted to intentionally, but it would be pretty difficult.

That said, even a coarse grit cheap round wheel is fine if it's kept fresh with a cheap diamond dresser. Total cost for the pair should be about 20 pounds. The fine wheels and the loaded wheels are the ones that burn things.

 

[iNewbie]

Its not trivial to him. Why this seems to evade you on your crusade to harass him is beyond me.

Whilst it is Pete's prerogative to complain about the chisels I don't see CC's response as "harassing". These posts come up high on google searches and future potential AI customers may well read them. Inexperienced wood workers could easily come away thinking that they wouldn't want to buy AI for this reason, especially if no one countered. As it stands what they will hopefully take away from this is that the ends might possibly be slightly out of square, but most woodworkers wouldn't worry about this.
It's a shame that Pete didn't make a post before this saying they were out of square and what did people on the forum think about this. I'm only up the road from him and if he'd have brought them to me I would have ground them square for free whilst telling him it didn't really matter (probably best off not wearing the £600 shoes at the dock though), or he could have taken them a mile up the road to North London Saws and they would have done it for £2 a chisel with no lecture.
Paddy

Good Lord - I'm well aware of these posts/threads coming up and the supposed 'nobody will ever buy another tool of theirs' is a knee-jerk reaction. As has been pointed out, most people who buy them would probably do the grind themselves. He doesn't want to. The shop were happy to take them back. End of...

How many times does the OP need to be badgered about what he should do because someone else feels he should do it cuz it'll make them all warm and fuzzy and their experience didn't match his so he's in the wrong.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

iNewbie, How you conclude that i am badgering him is beyond me. No where have I said that as a result of this post no one will buy AI's tools. Indeed I think it has been a useful and balanced discussion. This is a woodworking discussion forum, if you post something expect to have it discussed. I have offered Petey the opportunity to come to my dry dock to regrind his plane irons and have given him very useful local knowledge about NLS. I suppose your saying that the only valid response to anything that has disappointed someone is "oh dear, that's terrible, how awful for you, but don't worry if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger".
Petey has posted his disappointment with AI chisels, others have given their opinion, it's a discussion. What exactly have you contributed to the discussion other than said we should not discuss it?

 

[Petey83]

iNewbie, How you conclude that i am badgering him is beyond me. No where have I said that as a result of this post no one will buy AI's tools. Indeed I think it has been a useful and balanced discussion. This is a woodworking discussion forum, if you post something expect to have it discussed. I have offered Petey the opportunity to come to my dry dock to regrind his plane irons and have given him very useful local knowledge about NLS. I suppose your saying that the only valid response to anything that has disappointed someone is "oh dear, that's terrible, how awful for you, but don't worry if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger".
Petey has posted his disappointment with AI chisels, others have given their opinion, it's a discussion. What exactly have you contributed to the discussion other than said we should not discuss it?

Paddy I hear what you are saying but I as the original poster will say it's not felt like a balanced conversation most of the time - it's felt like people laying into me for having an opinion that is not aligned with their own and saying I should not be a woodworker as I don't k ow how to grind tools at the length and happen to own a few nice pairs of shoes.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Hi Petey, my response to iNewbie was because he directly quoted me as an example of "badgering". If you have felt harassed by me I wholeheartedly apologise. I always try to be polite and constructive in my comments, both here and in my life in general.
Paddy

 

[Petey83]

Hi Petey, my response to iNewbie was because he directly quoted me as an example of "badgering". If you have felt harassed by me I wholeheartedly apologise. I always try to be polite and constructive in my comments, both here and in my life in general.
Paddy

No not by you specifically mate but a few folk seem to have got on their self righteous high horse and it's felt like an attack because I had a different view and skill level compared to them.

If I was that offended I'd have insisted you owe me a pint in the Goffs Oak or Prince of Wales one night

 

[Ttrees]

Why not go tho the pound shop if your nervous and buy a £1 chisel to learn on ?
I suggest getting a permanent marker while your at it.
If you colour in the bevel you will be able to see where your grinding.
Might come in handy if your checking very often, and end up with multiple facets .

If you can keep you hand close to the end the tool you have no risk of burning the edge
If it's too hot to hold, its getting too hot.

 

[D_W]

Hi Petey, my response to iNewbie was because he directly quoted me as an example of "badgering". If you have felt harassed by me I wholeheartedly apologise. I always try to be polite and constructive in my comments, both here and in my life in general.
Paddy

No not by you specifically mate but a few folk seem to have got on their self righteous high horse and it's felt like an attack because I had a different view and skill level compared to them.

If I was that offended I'd have insisted you owe me a pint in the Goffs Oak or Prince of Wales one night

I don't know if I'm in the crowd. I approve of the shoes, as mentioned.

It's not so much that you have a different skill set, some of us (like me) really aren't that far along to begin with - but we're far along enough to know which problems are significant.

So, the real issue is that you asserted that the bevel was a serious problem worthy of return, and then asserted your disappointment - proceeding to assail very nicely made chisels that are made at a tiny fraction of what any of us would settle for if we were to design and sell the same thing. A good starting post would've been at the receipt of them and an open-minded question about whether or not it was a big deal in the first place. Many would've said it's not a problem, some would have. In the end if you'd have said "I don't know what to do, I feel unsure of myself grinding them", a large number would've said "call the retailer and see what they think".

As I mentioned, even my kiyotada chisel that was brand new had a bevel that wasn't perfectly square.

You will likely be happy with the LN chisels, as I believe they grind almost everything they make on a surface grinder. The plane irons come out laser flat and square because of it. Eventually, you may become dissatisfied very quickly with the LN chisels if you don't find a machine grinding alternative, though. They have a very large cross section of abrasion resistant steel at a hardness higher than most chisels (but similar to the AIs). A chisel a bit softer with a thinner cross section is definitely a better candidate for manual grinding.

 

[iNewbie]

iNewbie, How you conclude that i am badgering him is beyond me. No where have I said that as a result of this post no one will buy AI's tools. Indeed I think it has been a useful and balanced discussion. This is a woodworking discussion forum, if you post something expect to have it discussed. I have offered Petey the opportunity to come to my dry dock to regrind his plane irons and have given him very useful local knowledge about NLS. I suppose your saying that the only valid response to anything that has disappointed someone is "oh dear, that's terrible, how awful for you, but don't worry if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger".
Petey has posted his disappointment with AI chisels, others have given their opinion, it's a discussion. What exactly have you contributed to the discussion other than said we should not discuss it?

You've assumed my badgering comment is you. Nothing more. Read back, my points were to Cheshire until you piped up. How you conclude my only valid response would be: "I suppose your saying that the only valid response to anything that has disappointed someone is "oh dear, that's terrible, how awful for you, but don't worry if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger" ........ when I never posted anything like that,......is beyond me...

Here's the skinny: The guy didn't ask anyone to square his chisels. the seller could have sorted that. He just raised his disappointment about his AI buying experience. He then said he was buying the LN's. Thats it, in a nutshell.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

iNewbie, I concluded they were aimed at me because you quoted me and clearly leveled them at me (all be it only when I "pipped up"). I apologise to you sir , I got mixed up, I was under the impression that this was a discussion forum, not Petey's private blog with you as his security. Maybe you should run his blog without the reply button activated, or at least make it clear that dissenting opinions will not be tolerated.
All my posts on this forum (until this one) have been polite and constructive (apart from a slip up in the Brexit debate). I have given away tools and services to other forum members for free and have received similar (thanks Droogs). In this conversation I have been polite and helpful to the OP. Why you feel the need to attack people in a woodwork discussion forum for discussing woodwork is beyond my comprehension. Troll away all you like, I won't be responding, I'd rather stick to positive discussion and try to help those who need my help and get help from those who can help me. You sir, fall into neither category.
All the best, Paddy

 

[iNewbie]

zzzzzzzz

 

[MrTeroo]

Time for a padlock icon next to this thread methinks.....

 

[D_W]

Time for a padlock icon next to this thread methinks.....

We didn't finish the shoe heel squareness talk!!!

 

[Petey83]

Please please please lock this thread so I can get on with enjoying my expensive shoes and perfectly square LN chisels. I'm happy so let's end this.

 

[D_W]

Please please please lock this thread so I can get on with enjoying my expensive shoes and perfectly square LN chisels. I'm happy so let's end this.

Once it's over, we need to go on a crusade to get the average person to buy decent shoes, take care of them, and avoid paying the same thing over time for imported junk.

Wait, maybe we can do that with tools, too.

I'd mention allen edmonds as another option over there, but by the time they're imported with VAT added to them, they're probably not that much different in cost - at least the US made ones.

Never understood the desire to lock threads, though. There isn't anything particularly offensive in this one - I thought it was quite an instructive thread, and interesting.

So, too, might someone else new to the hobby who comes along and searches for chisel squareness.

 

[Lons]

you know what - can i just ask everyone to drop this thread now please. There is clearly a lot of disagreement here and it's clear I am not going to see eye to eye with some of the people who have commented. Ultimately we all enjoy the same thing just in different ways.

This thread has surely run its course. :roll: But you're your worst enemy really as despite your protests such as your quote above you've posted another eight times since that one. (hammer)

As stated, this is a discussion forum, if you feel battered then don't post! I doubt there is any intent to harass, rather just post our opinions based on experience. BTW you'll never achieve the truly "balanced" thread you want, just doesn't work that way and compared to some, this forum is pretty mild mannered.

No-one can be critical of you for buying nice tools, it's part of the enjoyment of the hobby for many of us but there is also much pleasure obtained by using other good quality and often s/h tools, I personally enjoy refurbishing them. You have no experience using AI chisels because you sent them back and your reasons are understandable while those of us more experienced know they need minor fettling for the reasons stated. both arguments are valid.

IMO ultra cheap chiwanese tools are not worth the effort, other middle of the range often are but the suggestion you buy one to learn how to sharpen is a good one as you can grind it with impunity until you're proficient.

If you'd been at the wheel for the amount of time you've spent on this thread you might have been a master grinder by now. :wink:

Is there not a woodworking club anywhere near you? Or like minded enthusiasts you can meet up with? That would really help! Anyway, whatever you do mate, keep at it, you never stop learning

Bob

 

[ColeyS1]

My grinding history might be of use Petey83, it's quite a list !
When I was doing my apprenticeship I started grinding with a normal bench grinder. It literally had a rest,that was wibbly wobbly and out of parallel rest.Quite often I'd overheat the tip of the cutting edge.
Another guy who worked there bought a massive horizontal 2ft wheel, that ran with oil being pumped on the surface. It was an improvement but it was the size of a fridge !!! Clamping anything to it was also a pain in the bum- it was just fiddly !

I think he next added a white stone to a normal bench grinder which allowed it to cut a little cooler- to be honest I didn't notice it improved things that much.

Next i bought a tormek ! Not really suitable for regrinding but it did the job- I use to just prop the tools up and leave it going. I noticed a diamond wheel was available for the tormek- at first it cut really fast, after a while it lost its edge. Cheapo chisels, still relatively fast.Ai chisels It could be anything from 30-40 minutes - no overheating though !!

Next up, creusen slow speed grinder- fkin finally !!!!!! Just amazing compared to all the rest. I fitted a jig that allowed repeatable grinds- so measure how much the chisel was stuck out the jig, then after it got honed alot just remeasure the projection, and you'd remove as little metal as possible, but get a fresh cutting edge. Only issue, was the stone diameter changed after each use, so the amount of projection required also changed.
Finally flicking through the Axminster catalogue, I spotted they made a cbn wheel that would fit the creusen - that was the game changer !!!! It's nearly impossible to overheat an edge now. Through habit I'll dunk the blade in water before starting to grind, by the time I've finished, the majority of the waters still there !
That's when I no longer searched for a better grinding solution. It's amazing !

Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[ColeyS1]

Forget to mention, it cuts really fast !! Like 2-3 minutes per cutting edge is loads. It keeps such a cool cutting edge, and best of all the diameter doesn't change so it removes hardly anything when I regrind something.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes, a CBN with a jig is the way to go - you'll probably the life expectancy of the tool two or three times, you take so little off each time (despite a regular poster here's claim that you take off less freehand :? :lol: ). It takes seconds.

 

[Petey83]

My grinding history might be of use Petey83, it's quite a list !
When I was doing my apprenticeship I started grinding with a normal bench grinder. It literally had a rest,that was wibbly wobbly and out of parallel rest.Quite often I'd overheat the tip of the cutting edge.
Another guy who worked there bought a massive horizontal 2ft wheel, that ran with oil being pumped on the surface. It was an improvement but it was the size of a fridge !!! Clamping anything to it was also a pain in the bum- it was just fiddly !

I think he next added a white stone to a normal bench grinder which allowed it to cut a little cooler- to be honest I didn't notice it improved things that much.

Next i bought a tormek ! Not really suitable for regrinding but it did the job- I use to just prop the tools up and leave it going. I noticed a diamond wheel was available for the tormek- at first it cut really fast, after a while it lost its edge. Cheapo chisels, still relatively fast.Ai chisels It could be anything from 30-40 minutes - no overheating though !!

Next up, creusen slow speed grinder- fkin finally !!!!!! Just amazing compared to all the rest. I fitted a jig that allowed repeatable grinds- so measure how much the chisel was stuck out the jig, then after it got honed alot just remeasure the projection, and you'd remove as little metal as possible, but get a fresh cutting edge. Only issue, was the stone diameter changed after each use, so the amount of projection required also changed.
Finally flicking through the Axminster catalogue, I spotted they made a cbn wheel that would fit the creusen - that was the game changer !!!! It's nearly impossible to overheat an edge now. Through habit I'll dunk the blade in water before starting to grind, by the time I've finished, the majority of the waters still there !
That's when I no longer searched for a better grinding solution. It's amazing !

Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Thanks for sharing. I only have a basic Record 8" grinder but have ordered a 46grit Norton 3x wheel as I understand these run considerably cooler. I have also ordered the Veritas adjustable tool test to replace the junk tool rest that came on the wheel. Plan is to start on the old Irwin Marples in a few weeks time once I've finished putting the raised floor and bording On the walls in the garage.