custard
Established Member
adrspach":3d4pl2dt said:
You don't hold it down, you plane against a 5mm stop on a flat bench. If your bench isn't flat you tack a 5mm stop to a thick piece of MDF and then clamp that to your bench.
Any advice on hand thicknessing?
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You don't hold it down, you plane against a 5mm stop on a flat bench. If your bench isn't flat you tack a 5mm stop to a thick piece of MDF and then clamp that to your bench.
bugbear
Established Member
adrspach":3jw95iui said:
This is well covered by Robert Wearing in his book, now reprinted, "The Essential Woodworker".
If you prefer video, Robert Cosman's "Rough to Ready" is well liked.
If you're coming from hand ripped stock, you're certainly going to want one plane with a goodly amount of camber to remove waste quickly, and you're going
to want a well set up smoothing plane at the end. You might want a trying plane in the middle, but you could manage without.
If they're all Bailey types, the tuning and setup and mode of use is the same for all of them.
Good Luck!
BugBear
bugbear
Established Member
adrspach":1yusfng5 said:
It occurs to me that I have a VHS copy of Jim Kigshotts video "Planes and Planing", which I found helpful (and his accent is amazing!)
I also no longer have a VHS player...
If you think it might be of use to you, PM me a mailing address, and I'll send it.
BugBear
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
It's the one in the middle you want. You need to get your hand in with just one general purpose jack plane. You can do just about everything with it. When you feel you are on top of it (this may take some time) you could consider other planes - but they only add a very marginal advantage (except for the specialist planes; rebating etc).bugbear":2q5dnnew said:
Keep it simple.
Bod
Established Member
adrspach":18gjtqia said:
Chap called Chippendale, once picked up a plane for the first time.......
Bod
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
The word "stock" can be confusing.skippy75":l2we46li said:
He isn't actually preparing "stock"- he makes it clear he is preparing a table leg, with a piece of wood taken from stock. A timber yard will "prepare stock" i.e. plane all round (PAR) long pieces. But small workshops don't do this. When it comes to making anything you cut to length/width first before you do any planing/thicknessing. at all.
bertikus_maximus
Established Member
I think thicknessing can be done with one plane - a no 5 jack plane but for wider/longer boards, a no 7 will give better results. Here's the steps I'd take:
1. Decide which face you feel like flattening first. I prefer to do the face that has a slightly dip in the middle (so a 'cupped' face) meaning the edges are slightly higher. Scribble on the board with a pencil. Use your plane to lightly chamfer the edges of the board.
2. Cut across the grain (the chamfering will, in theory, help stop blow out) along the length of the board. The pencil scribbles will help you know where the plane is cutting from. When you've pretty much removed all of the pencil like this, you've got a board that's near enough flat across the grain.
3. Check for twisting - a set of winding sticks will help with this. If you spot any twist, plane the high spots to remove it.
4. Then use your no 5 to check diagonally across the board, along its whole length. Conventional wisdom says you should do this one way and then turn around and do it the other way.
5. Finally, plane with the grain along the length of your board. This hopefully leaves you with at least one face which is twist-free, flat(ish) across and along the grain.
6. Square the edges using the flattened face as a reference.
7. Mark the thickness you require and then plane the un-flattened side down to this line. You can chamfer the edges of this face down to the line to help as a reference during this process.
8. You're done!
The next steps are to mark up, cut your joints and then apply a smoother. Again, a no5 can be used for this (if its set up right) but a specialist smoothing plane will give the best results.
In my opinion, flat enough is good enough. It takes a great deal of skill and effort (not forgetting time as well) to get a perfectly flat surface by hand. And plus, wood tends to move around a bit so even if you get it flat today, it won't stay flat forever and will eventually move a bit. Therefore, if you can get it flat enough for what you want, a small gap or two under the straight edge here and there won't be a showstopper.
1. Decide which face you feel like flattening first. I prefer to do the face that has a slightly dip in the middle (so a 'cupped' face) meaning the edges are slightly higher. Scribble on the board with a pencil. Use your plane to lightly chamfer the edges of the board.
2. Cut across the grain (the chamfering will, in theory, help stop blow out) along the length of the board. The pencil scribbles will help you know where the plane is cutting from. When you've pretty much removed all of the pencil like this, you've got a board that's near enough flat across the grain.
3. Check for twisting - a set of winding sticks will help with this. If you spot any twist, plane the high spots to remove it.
4. Then use your no 5 to check diagonally across the board, along its whole length. Conventional wisdom says you should do this one way and then turn around and do it the other way.
5. Finally, plane with the grain along the length of your board. This hopefully leaves you with at least one face which is twist-free, flat(ish) across and along the grain.
6. Square the edges using the flattened face as a reference.
7. Mark the thickness you require and then plane the un-flattened side down to this line. You can chamfer the edges of this face down to the line to help as a reference during this process.
8. You're done!
The next steps are to mark up, cut your joints and then apply a smoother. Again, a no5 can be used for this (if its set up right) but a specialist smoothing plane will give the best results.
In my opinion, flat enough is good enough. It takes a great deal of skill and effort (not forgetting time as well) to get a perfectly flat surface by hand. And plus, wood tends to move around a bit so even if you get it flat today, it won't stay flat forever and will eventually move a bit. Therefore, if you can get it flat enough for what you want, a small gap or two under the straight edge here and there won't be a showstopper.
Jacob":xhgkawyz said:
Surely its the same principle though? Get one side perfect and work off of that with hand planes to achieve the size and finish you require. Paul explains the process in more detail than any other you tuber I've seen.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
What principle?skippy75":390zd2wz said:
Preparing "stock" is (strictly) sawing timber to sizes. This may be re sawn to smaller sizes.
What Sellers is doing is "making a table leg" (as he says).
I'm being pedantic because some beginners think you have to "prepare stock" i.e. plane it flat and thickness it, before you start cutting it to the cutting list.
Timber yards may well "prepare stock" i.e. plane up PAR, because they stock PAR for the DIY trade. Small workshops don't (as a rule).
I had a mate who made this mistake when he set up his first workshop. He was used to buying PAR. He bought a load of sawn redwood and proceeded to attempt to turn it into PAR - he thought that's what you did.
It drove him mad; it's extremely difficult to do on long pieces, and anyway it all moved over night so he had to do it all again. He ended up getting very distressed over the huge expensive pile of shavings!
He should have left it alone but "in stick" to dry out, just taking and working on stuff as he needed it
My advice would be don't as it takes forever, especially with hard woods.
I've never tried with softwood but imagines that's still time consuming but easier. You can get quite a good planer/thicknesser for £250-300.
I've never tried with softwood but imagines that's still time consuming but easier. You can get quite a good planer/thicknesser for £250-300.
bugbear
Established Member
Jacob":5nbgxjqv said:
Stock preparation is the common term (and I'm not aware of anyone being confused by it).
If you must insist on avoiding the word "stock" Hooper and Wells call it preparing the stuff.
Edit; FFS; I should have know. Sellers' two videos on youtube are actually called:
How to make square stock straight, smooth and square (stock preparation part 1) - with Paul Sellers
How to make flat boards straight, smooth and square (stock preparation part 2) - with Paul Sellers
The captions within both videos are simpler:
Stock Preparation - Video 1
Stock Preparation - Video 2
So - Sellers calls it "stock preparation".
The actual Paul Sellers is often so much more conventional than Jacob's edited version of him.
BugBear
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Call it what you like but it leads to confusion with beginners; my mate as described above and many people on here over the years, especially if they have been used to buying PAR.bugbear":19bg9ehs said:
Thanks for the long winded and edited explanation but you have missed the point (as usual). I am trying to point out (for the hundredth time!) that you can call it what you like but beginners may get confused into thinking stock preparation is something you do to stock before you start making something.
I wouldn't waste any more time on it BB you just won't get it!
bugbear
Established Member
adrspach":6dg5besm said:
I suppose I missed out some important questions:
What workbench (if any) do you have?
What timber are you using (pine, walnut, some kind of mahogany, oak.. ) ?
What sizes pieces are you making for your boxes, width, depth, thickness?
BugBear
skippy75":10gwilcl said:
Agreed. I find him a very watchable presenter and teacher.
I'm sure he would not disagree with this, but he'll often make little slips in his explanations - like saying left instead of right, or just picking a wrong word. And his blog posts would benefit if he had a good editor or ghost writer - sometimes you need to pick through the verbal errors to see his meaning.
But that's the downside of videos and writing online. If he just said it in a classroom, the mistakes would be passed over and the context would make the meaning clear. And as far as I know he makes no special claim of being eloquent.
My conclusion: there is no point in scrutinising every tiny detail of what he or anyone else says and pointing out inconsistencies and errors - we all make them.
To clarify further.
One of my benches is cheap quite light secondhand Clarke or something like that with 40mm top. It is quite rickety when cutting and trying to plane on it. I am in process of asquiring material either for rebuilding legs and support or if I am lucky to get enough wood then to make new one with screw vices salvaged from the old one. The problem is that it is in my unheated shed and when it is cold there is a lot of condensation left on everything which is a problem.
The other one is for cold days in our house my old office desk on which I installed record 52 vice.
There is not much space left for a thicknesser as well as when in past I used old power router it was not much welcome by my surroundings. two main issues were noise and dust. Dust I hope will be solved soon by Dust Mite but the noise I just do not know.
One of the hand woodworking big atractions for me is tranquility that I can feel, smell the wood and hear the cutting tool going through as well as I appreciate art of ols craftsmen. One good friend of mine who renovates and repairs old guns says "With power tool it is just wroom wroom and a good piece of material is wasted".
I have watched all P. Sellers youtube videos as well as quite few which are part of his Masterclases. They show a lot of process. What you do not see is the detail for example how does "crisp" edge or cut look like. There is my question about precission.
I have tried to get to his clasess but just missed the last one and next one is in August. One well known member here knows that I tried to find somebody to show me the ropes but he was not able to do it himself yet and so far I failed to find somebody else.
I am trying to thickness the wood that I can lay out for corner joints.
Yes I am a starting amateur woodworker. I do have few tools as some were given to me and other I have asquired over long time part of it as member of THATS. My speciality is natural sharpening stones and often when you buing them there are other tools in bundles. That is what brought me to woodworking quite simply I appreciate old tool and want to make boxes for my stones. Some are very special and they in my opinion deserve good boxes.
Simmilar thing is with my tools I have renovate most of them and want to keep them safe and in good working order. On my table is 043 waiiting for box as well a set of Marples chisels and M&W combination square.
Sizes which I work with are usualy under 100mm wide.
Wood which I use is usually salvaged from old pallets, left overs from building project in past, some pieces of rough sawn oak (probably better for turning than boards due to many knots), pieces of laminated oak from old table, Pieces of old door frames/ window sils and old pieces from paternmakers workshop when local aluminium foundry was closing (probably mahagony), few short old boards of quatersawn ash and some pieces of rough sawn leftover of walnut which is not even square.
Different pieces of plywood as extra.
There is a timbermerchant about 15 miles away. Was there once and I am not going there again (Is it normal that flat sawn and square planed board of spruce apparently kiln dried 2550x18x200 cost £28?).
I do appreciate any help from people who are willing to share and hope that perhaps once I will be able to return the favour. Thank you guys.
One of my benches is cheap quite light secondhand Clarke or something like that with 40mm top. It is quite rickety when cutting and trying to plane on it. I am in process of asquiring material either for rebuilding legs and support or if I am lucky to get enough wood then to make new one with screw vices salvaged from the old one. The problem is that it is in my unheated shed and when it is cold there is a lot of condensation left on everything which is a problem.
The other one is for cold days in our house my old office desk on which I installed record 52 vice.
There is not much space left for a thicknesser as well as when in past I used old power router it was not much welcome by my surroundings. two main issues were noise and dust. Dust I hope will be solved soon by Dust Mite but the noise I just do not know.
One of the hand woodworking big atractions for me is tranquility that I can feel, smell the wood and hear the cutting tool going through as well as I appreciate art of ols craftsmen. One good friend of mine who renovates and repairs old guns says "With power tool it is just wroom wroom and a good piece of material is wasted".
I have watched all P. Sellers youtube videos as well as quite few which are part of his Masterclases. They show a lot of process. What you do not see is the detail for example how does "crisp" edge or cut look like. There is my question about precission.
I have tried to get to his clasess but just missed the last one and next one is in August. One well known member here knows that I tried to find somebody to show me the ropes but he was not able to do it himself yet and so far I failed to find somebody else.
I am trying to thickness the wood that I can lay out for corner joints.
Yes I am a starting amateur woodworker. I do have few tools as some were given to me and other I have asquired over long time part of it as member of THATS. My speciality is natural sharpening stones and often when you buing them there are other tools in bundles. That is what brought me to woodworking quite simply I appreciate old tool and want to make boxes for my stones. Some are very special and they in my opinion deserve good boxes.
Simmilar thing is with my tools I have renovate most of them and want to keep them safe and in good working order. On my table is 043 waiiting for box as well a set of Marples chisels and M&W combination square.
Sizes which I work with are usualy under 100mm wide.
Wood which I use is usually salvaged from old pallets, left overs from building project in past, some pieces of rough sawn oak (probably better for turning than boards due to many knots), pieces of laminated oak from old table, Pieces of old door frames/ window sils and old pieces from paternmakers workshop when local aluminium foundry was closing (probably mahagony), few short old boards of quatersawn ash and some pieces of rough sawn leftover of walnut which is not even square.
Different pieces of plywood as extra.
There is a timbermerchant about 15 miles away. Was there once and I am not going there again (Is it normal that flat sawn and square planed board of spruce apparently kiln dried 2550x18x200 cost £28?).
I do appreciate any help from people who are willing to share and hope that perhaps once I will be able to return the favour. Thank you guys.
Natural sharpening stones can be things of beauty, Well worth taking the time to protect them. I would be interested in hearing more about the stones if you ever fancied making a thread about them. I'm sure I can't be alone in that?
Start on boxes for the cheaper stones and work your way up, you will get some beautiful boxes by the time you are making them for your best ones. Theres no substitute for getting stuck in and practicing, if you mess up then you've gained knowledge.
Theres some interesting videos of traditional Japanese craftsmen making boards flat on youtube, normally on the floor with minimal tools. Might be worth a watch.
Start on boxes for the cheaper stones and work your way up, you will get some beautiful boxes by the time you are making them for your best ones. Theres no substitute for getting stuck in and practicing, if you mess up then you've gained knowledge.
Theres some interesting videos of traditional Japanese craftsmen making boards flat on youtube, normally on the floor with minimal tools. Might be worth a watch.
