Another Paul Sellers Workbench... With A Twist

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El Barto

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Ok I lied there is no twist, I just wanted to get your attention. There is a workbench though, or at least the beginnings of one. And instead of spamming the "... workshop" thread I decided to start a wip. If you would like to scroll to the end you can check out thetyreman's thread; my bench will be very similar to his though probably not quite as good.

Having cut the mortises for the legs a couple of days ago I spent today cutting the tenons and assembling the H frames. With the mortises out of the way I thought the rest would be a breeze, how naive. Turns out cutting tenons is difficult, especially of this size where it's so easy to make a mistake, of which I made several. But by the end of it I could feel a definite improvement and had a much more solid technique, errors were minimal.

Below are photos of the glued legs clamped up. As thetyreman mentioned, the gaps really do close up a surprising amount when everything is clamped. One of the legs is bang on 22", the other is a couple of mm under which I hope won't matter much (though please chime in if it will). As you can see in the photos there is also a fair amount of blood. This was a nightmare. I'm on blood thinners - even with the slightest nick (in this case caught my finger on a saw) I will bleed for hours. And I cut myself fairly often ffs.

Speaking of glue, I used Gorilla Glue. HUGE mistake. With their superior duct tape I thought the glue would also be good, but it's horrible stuff. Foams up and gets everywhere (although I can't speak for its holding quality). Got some proper glue on order from Toolstation for the rest of the bench.

That seems like a good place to leave the build for Christmas, I'm pretty happy with the progress so far. One thing I'm not happy with is the benchtop I made out of rough sawn. It has planed edges on the top and rounded on the bottom, not really a big deal but I know it'll bug me if I don't fix it. By fix it I mean buy PAR and have done with it, although I'm slightly loathe to take the easy way out. But more than that I want to finish this thing and start using it, and also not have too many things that I don't like or compromised over.

Thanks for reading.

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Nothing whatsoever wrong with Gorilla - or any other PU. You just need to be aware of its characteristics. Many people would say it's the best glue of all for these uses. You need to have cramps set up and wipes and rags at hand and be aware how quickly it foams and grabs, although there are different PU glues with different setting times. Throwaway gloves are useful, as well. If you use PAR don't ever presume it's straight, flat or square - it may well be ... but it probably isn't.
 
phil.p":rycnacfd said:
Nothing whatsoever wrong with Gorilla - or any other PU. You just need to be aware of its characteristics. Many people would say it's the best glue of all for these uses. You need to have cramps set up and wipes and rags at hand and be aware how quickly it foams and grabs, although there are different PU glues with different setting times. Throwaway gloves are useful, as well. If you use PAR don't ever presume it's straight, flat or square - it may well be ... but it probably isn't.

Hi Phil, yeah I quickly realised that latex gloves were going to be necessary! Don't worry I definitely wouldn't assume that PAR is perfect out the box. The main reason I want it is so to avoid those gaps created by laminating wood with rounded edges.

Ps. Glad to hear that Gorilla is at least a good glue.
 
I wouldn't recommend PU foaming glues - they're weaker than PVA glues by the very nature of them foaming. It's easier to break a bubbled mass than a solid one
 
Generally I'm not all that keen on pu glue, there's a common misconception that they're gap filling when they really aren't (the foam has zero strength).

However, if you're gluing end grain pu delivers significantly more strength than PVA (even sized PVA) without the inconvenience of other end grain glue options like UF or epoxy.
 
I believe many people use the term "gap filling" as I would - the gap is full of something, and therefore incapable of being filled by something else (usually water). The fact that the foam has little inherent strength is neither here nor there - it stops water, insects, whatever getting in.
 
MattRoberts":1pzyfp1d said:
I wouldn't recommend PU foaming glues - they're weaker than PVA glues by the very nature of them foaming. It's easier to break a bubbled mass than a solid one

Hello,

It is not the foam in PU nor the mass of PVA which has the strength though. In a close fitting edge glue up, there should be no foam, nor glue mass as there should be no gaps! Glue for wood works by penetration on a cellular level, possibly on the weak molecular forces themselves. The idea of PU is that the pressure of its expansion forces it into the surfaces of the timber, for this reason the wood to be joined must be clamped and be close fitting. It is wrong to thinking of the foam giving any strength, nor if it being a weakness. Equally, it is wrong to think of PVA mass being the strength, it is not.

Mike.
 
El Barto":xhnewjxo said:
Incidentally, what is a good method for covering up/filling in gaps left by shoddy work? Epoxy and sawdust? How does it work?

I've heard a little hide glue mixed with sawdust works well, the hide glue won't interfere with finish as much as a PVA or similar, at least that's the theory. I have some panels where I had to fill a gap this way currently on the bench, when I apply the finish I will find out how well it works.
 
phil.p":1hz9n8dt said:
A perfectly good glue. For an extra couple of quid you can buy D4, which is totally waterproof but has quite a quick grab so might not be ideal for large assemblies.

D4 is what I've switched over to for the rest of the glue up.

I picked up some planed stock to re-do the bench top with and although I'm slightly annoyed at myself for getting the bogus stuff to begin with, I'm definitely happier now. Already the edges line up better and more flush than what I had previously. Also found a nice little timber merchant near my mum's house in Andover, check 'em out if you're in the North Hampshire area: http://www.gerrystimber.co.uk/
 
Finally home after the Christmas "break" and so back to working on the bench. With my limited amount of clamps glueing up is a slow process. Incidentally, been looking at these sash clamps from Rutlands if anyone has any good or bad thoughts on them (I've read both positive and negative reviews so still undecided...).

I also noticed that one of my leg frames is about a millimetre lower on one side than the other leg and other frame. Is this cause for concern? While I want to get everything done correctly without cutting any corners, I'm also happy to avoid fixing things that might not necessarily need to be fixed y'know. Thoughts/advice welcome!

No pics today I'm afraid - tomorrow tho! (hammer)
 
El Barto":1vcd5ssf said:
I also noticed that one of my leg frames is about a millimetre lower on one side than the other leg and other frame. Is this cause for concern? While I want to get everything done correctly without cutting any corners, I'm also happy to avoid fixing things that might not necessarily need to be fixed y'know. Thoughts/advice welcome!

:)
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Second apron glued up today. As you can see, a couple of ridges to plane out but nothing major and not much twist from what I can see. However, I'm definitely not looking forward to planing this all flat and smooth on my rickety makeshift "bench".

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Inspecting my leg frames again it looks like one of the legs has been pulled slightly inwards by the tenon. Annoying that I didn't notice it before glueing it up but c'est la vie.

Happy New Year to you all.
 
Got some more work done on the bench tonight but I've run into a problem which is pretty frustrating... I'll try and explain.

I'm working on the aprons at the moment and I've got a square edge and square face. So I've started work on the other face and now that I've removed the twist I'm working on getting it flat. I've used a marking gauge to make sure I don't go too wild with the plane but herein lies the problem. I'm dead on the gauge line on each side of the face and so went about flattening the middle. But when checked for square it's showing considerably out, which doesn't make sense to me as both side are the same thickness. The pic below should help explain... see the light on the right poking through, in theory that shouldn't be there and while it doesn't quite show up in the pic, it extends further towards the square's face than it looks. To fix I'd assume taking a few more shavings off that left side to correct the error, but then I'm left with one side thicker than the other. If anyone can shed any light on where I've ballsed it up that'd be great, I imagine it's something embarrassingly simple. #-o

On another note, the racking on this saw horse bench is a nightmare!

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