An impossible question

[newbieblyth]

Having been lurking on this forum and found it a fascinating source of information for an armchair woodworker (well office chair), its time to take the plunge..

I have a fair bit of experience in bodging(TM) and DIY I would love to improve my skills in 'proper' carpentry. I have a range of DIY suitable tools but nothing adequate to achieve the results I want.

I'm 40 in a month and have persuaded my beloved to buy me a table saw, but I am coming to the conclusion that I'm not going to get a good one for her budget (actually it's our budget - I earn it she spends it!) of about £150. So would I be better upgrading my hand tools for that and can I get a basic set of tools to start small carpentry projects in hardwood (planned - coffee table, hi-fi cabinet etc etc) for that sum. I know need a new bench plane, chisels and tenon saw (can I get one that will do dovetails I do I need two saws).

I'm going to the festival of wood tomorrow to watch some of the demos and pick up tips (particularily on sharepening) and perhaps some wood.

I think this post is going to open a can of worms.... :?

 

[engineer one]

welcome, well it isn't the worms that will eat your wallet, but the tools.

i think personally that you should start out with hand tools, and also
buy ready prepared wood. in the short term it will of course get you
started, and you will learn about using the tools..

the biggest problem for anyone starting out is sawing in a straight line,
and so it is worth finding some old pallets or similar to practice on.

as for the tools, what you buy for 150 quid as a table saw will not help
you really in actually making so spend on the hand tools.

what ever you do you will need some sharpening things, and although
many disagree, one of the ice bear waterstone kits is a good place
to start and not too large a chunk of your budget. for many of us
returnees, japanese saws offer a better chance of sawing straight so
don't ignore lidl, and indeed the lidl chisels are actually worth it,
if for no other reason than you will learn about sharpening with them,
and they seem to get a decent edge.

whatever you will need a cordless, but go for a relatively decent one,
you should get one for under 50 quid, and maybe this weekend, there
will be special offers.

hand planes are slightly more expensive, although alf is promoting
the taiwanese ones, but i think they might be a bit difficult for a
beginner, so maybe looking for a second hand 41/2 and block plane
would be better.

hope this helps a little
paul :wink:

 

[newbieblyth]

Thanks for that I assume you mean by 'cordless' you mean drill / screwdriver, that side of it I have got sorted already, along with a jigsaw, pillar drill, OKish circular saw, a couple of cheap routers (ferm small one) an ALDI special router and router table and an a large collection of bodging tools.

I am veering off the table saw line now I have learnt to cut down sheet timber with a home made guide (two sheets of chipboard!) and the circular saw. Although I still like the concept of a table saw to cross-cut smaller stock to size accurately - I'm just begining to think to get what I want I am going to have spend a lot more than £150.

Anyway plenty more opinions please...

 

[engineer one]

glad to help, and that you have found the chipboard straight edge trick
that will keep you amused for ages.

just remember that you need to support the wood on 2x2's to ensure that
you do not cut through the carpet :lol:

paul :wink:

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi NB

Welcome to the forum.

I'll move this into hand tools as it might be more helpful.

Cheers
Neil

 

[devonwoody]

Why not place an enquiry at this site requesting a S/H tablesaw for £150.

Or watch Ebay, etc.

I am well known for my mad ideas!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome.

 

[Keefaz]

Thanks for that I assume you mean by 'cordless' you mean drill / screwdriver, that side of it I have got sorted already, along with a jigsaw, pillar drill, OKish circular saw, a couple of cheap routers (ferm small one) an ALDI special router and router table and an a large collection of bodging tools.

I am veering off the table saw line now I have learnt to cut down sheet timber with a home made guide (two sheets of chipboard!) and the circular saw. Although I still like the concept of a table saw to cross-cut smaller stock to size accurately - I'm just begining to think to get what I want I am going to have spend a lot more than £150.

Anyway plenty more opinions please...

Bah! You've got it all already! :lol:

As a beginner myself, what I've found most useful--aprt from sharpening stuff--are decent chisels, decent planes, and Japanese pull-saws. Those three things--along with a good try square, marking knife, and marking gauge--are what I use 75% of the time.

 

[Waka]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[garywayne]

Hi newbieblyth welcome to the forum.

I think that the most important things you will need is good accurate marking out equipment.

A good engineers square.
A marking out knife.
A cutting gauge.
A steel rule.
And try and buy a tape measure that is the same as your rule. (The inch and centimeter marks are the same). It helps towards accuracy.

You can't cut an accurate cut if your marking out is out.

I hope this is of some help. ATB Gary.

 

[Alf]

Welcome to the forum, NB.

It's a nightmare, this one, 'cos it's all too easy to suggest a small fortune's worth of stuff. But I'll be good.

Might be worth having a quick gander at this recent thread, if you haven't already. Measuring and marking accurately is a big help and half the battle towards accurate joints, so worth devoting some effort to that stuff. Chisels can also get you a long way and will be used again and again, so probably worth prioritising them too. Japanese saws give pretty good value for money when you're starting, and have an easier learning curve when you're a beginner. The same can be said of a certain bevel up plane well-known to this forum, but it'll blow the budget... Check out the Ray Iles idea in the other thread though. As Paul says, wooden planes can be a bit of a learning curve when you're starting and I'd hesitate to suggest them when you've no experience to know if it's you or the plane that's the trouble.

Sharpening is the thing that'll get you the most benefit from any tools you buy though, so either something like the Ice Bear set as suggested, or "Scary Sharp" for a quick start. Have no qualms about getting a honing guide either.

As you're going to Westonbirt, you can get a serious kickstart by hanging round the demos and asking lots and lots of questions. Rob Cosman is particularly worth seeing - although you'll have to harden your heart to the idea that you need all those lovely tools, which could be a bit of a strain... You might be able to pick up a few old tools to start you off too, so keep an eye out.

Cheers, Alf

P.S. Probably I should mention that "promoting the Taiwanese ones (planes)" is strictly from a position of no affiliation and I bought it myself with my own money. Apparently some people get their knickers in a twist otherwise, which is why I ain't reviewing anything any more.

 

[Paul Kierstead]

P.S. Probably I should mention that "promoting the Taiwanese ones (planes)" is strictly from a position of no affiliation and I bought it myself with my own money. Apparently some people get their knickers in a twist otherwise, which is why I ain't reviewing anything any more.

Yeah? YEAH???!!! Well I am gonna get my knickers all in a twist if ya don't review something, so THAR! Now what ya gonna do?

If you don't want to review stuff, its ok I guess (though I kind of enjoyed your reviews), but not to do it because of some groups doesn't approve ... well, you can never have everyone's approval, so why worry about it? Or as I always say ... oh wait, don't think those words are allowed here :twisted:

 

[George_N]

Welcome to the forum. You've already had quite a lot of good advice and I don't think I have much to add at this stage. A cutting guide for your circular saw will do a lot that a table saw will (I'd make one out of plywood rather than chipboard though, more durable. You can then 'dress' cut edges of sheet materials with your router.

P.S. Probably I should mention that "promoting the Taiwanese ones (planes)" is strictly from a position of no affiliation and I bought it myself with my own money. Apparently some people get their knickers in a twist otherwise, which is why I ain't reviewing anything any more.

please keep the reviews coming. I for one find them very useful.

 

[engineer one]

hey alf,
was n't complaining about the review, just that you have a reputation for fair examination, and had mentioned them recently in another post.
i accept that you bought them, and think that if i can
having just gotten back my own touch for using a "normal" plane,
and can over come the concerns about pulling it toward me,
the japanese/taiwaneses planes look interesting and not a lot of
money, so worth trying, and i for one would rather have your reviews than not. :lol:

paul :wink:

anyway my knickers fortunately don't get twisted when a fair is
undertaken, which in my recent experience you have done.

maybe people should look for non twisting knickers :roll: :twisted:

 

[woodbloke]

Agree with lots of comments so far including the one on second hand tools - its worth looking for decent stuff in a one of these shops - we have a very good one in Salisbury (Penny Farthing Tools) which I have a trawl round when I'm in town - saw an old (low front knob) No8 Stanley in there yesterday for £115, not sure if thats a fair going rate but they do have cheaper stuff. They also keep a limited range of new kit, mostly Crown stuff - Rob

 

[jasonB]

Could be worth a look for about £175.00, all you really need including a silly hat. :lol:

Jason

 

[Anonymous]

I think the hard thing, and a trap for many newbies to woodwork, is the let down when things seem to repeatabley 'don't work'....especially if its just a hobby with only occational time put to it, and if your going to be essentially self taught. Means much patience is needed

Goodluck......like you mentioned, focus on sharpening first.....can't do anything well with dull blades.....ideally must keep them razor sharp at all times.

 

[Mittlefehldt]

P.S. Probably I should mention that "promoting the Taiwanese ones (planes)" is strictly from a position of no affiliation and I bought it myself with my own money. Apparently some people get their knickers in a twist otherwise, which is why I ain't reviewing anything any more.

please keep the reviews coming. I for one find them very useful.

I second what Paul said Alf I have personally never gotten my self upset because people like yourself have reviewed tools sent to you by the maker. I get more upset with the partisan attitudes of those who favour one company over another and rail against someone who does an honest review.

However after seeing the rubbish that Derek Cohen has had to put up with at times I can't say that I blame you for your decision.

 

[Anonymous]

However after seeing the rubbish that Derek Cohen has had to put up with at times I can't say that I blame you for your decision.

Yes, he does cop a fair bit of rubbish. Consequently, he tends to disappear for a while afterwards...seems to post little.... a shame.

I think he's a proud man. I doubt he would say anything he didn't believe.

 

[philpolish]

Hi there the best thing i have made as a newbie is a jig for my cs. I made a bench around 8 foot long by 5oo wide. then i got 2 bits of 2x2 made a rebate in them for the saw base to run on screwed one square with the bench then cut a spacer the size of the saw base . put the spacer in between the 2 bits of 2x2 and screwed the second one in place. there you have yourself a decent crosscut saw put a piece of timber at the back of the bench put a tape on it then you can do repaet cuts. you can even cut tenons by raising the saw well worth making if you have the room. think carefully of the maximium size you wish to crosscut wish i had made mine a bit wider.
Cheers Phil.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Apparently some people get their knickers in a twist otherwise, which is why I ain't reviewing anything any more.

That's very sad, Alf Your reviews have been among the most useful and entertaining I have ever read. I, for one, hope that you change your mind [-o<

Paul