Advice needed

[Kibbster]

Hi

I’m completely new to woodworking, ie starting from scratch, and wondered if people could provide some advice.

I’ve been looking for any courses in the North East but, so far, haven’t been able to find much. Does anyone know of anyone who runs an Intro To Woodworking type course which could get me started? If not, can anyone recommend anyone to follow on YouTube who publishes good videos that could help, or any good books that would be worth buying?

I would also appreciate advice on what would constitute a ‘must-have’ toolkit for beginners and the best places to buy them.

Apologies if these sort of questions have been answered elsewhere on the forum.

Thanks

 

[Droogs]

Hi Kibbster
Regardless of the type of woodworking you want to be doing ultimately, it is a very good idea to learn the bare bones so to speak first. A good place to start is with a UK teacher, Paul Sellars, who has many online vids and runs a school full time. Peter Sefton is also a professional teacher and a member here have a look at his website for more information. A lot of people knock Paul but for the basics and learning how your core tools should perform and be looked after he is a very good place to start. Once you have sort of digested his lessons then a good place to learn about how to create a lot of the different types of joints is another youtube chap and his channel is Dorian Bracht, he just shows the making of joints no commentary but good to watch an learn sequences.

After these you can start to think about the more esoteric stuff. There are also some very good books mentioned throughout the forum and are easy to find some are even mentioned in the stickies at the top. the main thing to remember is that there are lots of guys on line with lessons etc and they all have some very different ideas on how to do things, so pick one you like and follow their way until you start to have a bit of experience. If you have ques then ask here many more knowledgeable than me will be more than willing to help

 

[Ttrees]

Rob Cosman and Phil lowe have some good videos on youtube.
Plenty of folks to watch, but few are precise and will teach you bad habits.
I would rather be precise from the get go, because I see plenty of people who get into trouble by plain bad practice
as its not a matter of skill to produce perfect work, but to have the attitude to actually watch the pros and repeat.
Its not a race.
Many of the most popular youtubers will have you believe they're masters or whatever, but before you get entranced in their
talk have a real good close up look at the finished article, if you can actually get to see it

If their work is not perfect neither will yours be, as you will be following the same methods which led them to failure in the first place.


I would link more people if there were a lot to learn from other folk
but some have too few videos compared to above names, or not as well produced in a constructive fashion.
I have and do watch them all hoping to find anything to further my craft, but no-one comes close to those folks mentioned.
There are another few names, but the above should keep you going.

Get yourself a nice vintage Stanley Bailey, or Record no.5 1/2 plane, with a thick sole
You will need more than one Bailey style plane,I would look for the ones without the x pattern webbing in the casting

A flat surface to plane on that you can trust to use for reference if you want precision....you may notice only some youtubers use the bench for reference, as others cut into their bench with saws and the likes so it probably isn't too flat in the first place,
and they plane in a vice deflecting the work if its thin stock they're working on...
You will never see how good their planing technique is, as they have nothing to demonstrate to you how good it is
Square and flat are two different things, and its easy for the novice to be fooled by a one dimensional view from the camera that all is spot on!
You won't see a panoramic view of two planed pieces mating up for laminating.
At least with a truly flat bench this is apparent...

An angle poise light is a thing to look out for.
A set of calipers without the digital measurements.
A square
An oil stone if you can get some at markets etc, otherwise I would wait till Ultex has half price diamond hones for a tenner
That should be enough to get your stock flat and square
The hand plane is truly the basis of this and a most fun tool to use

If you will be planing hardwoods with reversing grain, then look up David W's (Weavers) Youtube channel.
Don't bother with back bevels on your plane irons, and use the cap iron to have influence in the cut as its quicker/easier/a lot better than
a tight mouth, you need to have the mouth all the way open for the the cap iron to work.
You can't use the cap iron if you put back bevels on your plane iron

Good luck
Tom

 

[8squared]

I got started in woodwork thanks to my missus seeing an expensive childrens picnic bench in B&Q and suggesting i try and make one out of pallet wood.

I didn't have any tools to start with so borrowed a jigsaw, bought a hammer and nails... and built a picnic table.

After making another and a birdhouse i decided i needed my own jigsaw... then after many pallets i decided i needed something better so bought a circular saw.

That was followed up with a cordless drill and a drill press then a mitre saw, router then lastly a table saw.

It took me many months to get all that together and i bought cheap... i also bought each tool not because i felt i had to have them but they where indeed useful for the projects i had seen on youtube that i really wanted to make.

A long time later i knew i loved woodworking so made the leap into building my own workshed, got some better tools and moved onto hardwoods.

As for attending a course for the basics... i wouldn't... you would be better off starting with a simple project as i did and just having a play and see how you do... then do it again and try to improve on your mistakes and go from there till you find what it is you like.

 

[MikeG.]

.........As for attending a course for the basics... i wouldn't... you would be better off starting with a simple project as i did and just having a play and see how you do... then do it again and try to improve on your mistakes and go from there till you find what it is you like.

I followed your approach, albeit with handtools, and I have taught myself everything I know. However, I personally would suggest someone starting out did a little bit for themselves just to get a feel of the hobby, and to bump into their limitations, then get themselves alongside someone who knows what they're talking about. Not everyone has a lifetime of patience to develop the necessary skills through trial and error. Think of it this way: yes, you could just go and live in Serbia and, flounder about for a while not understanding anything, then through trial and error and total immersion, learn to speak Serbo-Croat, eventually. Or, you could go to a language teacher, and learn the basics quickly, then develop your skills as you need them.

 

[Cordy]

Kibbster
Go the 8squared route as above, that is how many of us got started
It's all on the internet -- YouTube, other articles and this very Forum
I've bought and sold machines etc on this forum - always to friendly members

Until I recently joined a wood-work club I didn't know any wood workers, apart from my neighbour who is a carpenter -- his only advice is 'buy Makita and Dewalt and you can't go wrong '

Neighbour brings me nice Oak occasionally

Re MikeG and Serbia; I would look at the likes of THIS rather than go to a language teacher
Good luck

 

[Sam_Jack]

Gee Whiz. Poor Kibbster. Lost in world of myth, legend, hearsay and self promotion. The basics are as simple as they are complex. When you first grab a lump of wood, you need to work out what, of itself, it is – understand it – as you interpret it. Wrong guess, no matter, you learned something. Even if it is as simple as to stop a fine set plane before it takes a thick shaving, (against the grain). But before that- you – must make certain the plane is square and true. How does one learn this? Easy – practice.

First, you must make certain than your cutting edges are ‘sharp’. You need to go from taking a whole morning to ‘tune’ a chisel, to about 5 minutes (max) to restore a ‘good’ working tool. For you are not even in the game without these skills. Many will provide ‘ideas’ on how best to achieve this – you need to find the way which suits you best. For example – some fellahin can, free hand, produce a pristine edge. Some blokes, with an expensive guide and the best stones money can buy achieve the same results. No matter, it is what suits you best, you need to reach the immortal ‘square’ and true. Same-same is true of timber. Rough old pine or select Mahogany; if the piece you start with ain’t ‘flat’ and square, before you begin; no amount of ‘accurate’ measurement will produce a satisfactory (to you) result.

Each tool, every bit of lumber, has it’s own language. A bloke – like Sellars, may help you sort out the how and why of a bench plane – but, he will not spend the time to tell you how important it is to set the frog – just so. Your own plane will though. Follow the basics, then try the product. You will know, exactly, the second your plane is working ‘just right’. Craftsmen take years to develop this ‘sensitivity’ and countless man hours working out how they actually got to that stage.

It ain’t rocket science; but, it is a learned skill. Watch the Guru’s by all means, learn the basics, then, from there develop your very own, unique skill, style and knowledge data base. Think of dovetails –of the first 200 you may get 1: 3 spot on – but the box will be out of square. Of the second 200, !:2 will be ‘acceptable’ and the box may, perhaps, be level and almost square. At or around the 1000 th mark – you may smile and brew a cuppa, revelling in the satisfaction of a job well done (not perfect) but to a good journeyman standard.

Hang in, find your measure, learn from the wizards, but never forget – it is your hand guiding the chisel; your arm swinging the mallet (or one of those puffy little chisel hammers); and; if the billet is not 4 square; well, you planed it so.

“Battles are waged on the earth and in the heavens. Within the mind and within the soul. This battle has been won.”

 

[AndyT]

For courses, it's easy to miss this useful "sticky" post

post638372.html#p638372

 

[nabs]

although an entirely understandable question, the trouble is that you will get advice from a mix of fellow beginners - who each will have different preferences for learning - and very experienced people who have seen countless beginners take up the hobby only to give it up in frustration.

as a result you are not likely to get a consistent set of advice....

You really have to make a few basic decisions before you can pick a route - do you want to use hand tools primarily, or do you prefer the idea of using power tools? Do you enjoy the process of research and experimentation or want to get to making things as soon as possible? Do you have lots of spare time or not enough? etc

I am a learner too (hand tools) and opted for a meandering route through tool history, refurbishing old tools and online learning. It has taken me over 2 years to get a reasonable set of tools and a rudimentary understanding of techniques such that I can now make some very simple furniture (slowly and not very well!).

I don't think this is an uncommon experience - if you are not sure that kind of approach might be satisfying I'd say you haven't got much to loose by doing a course. You'll soon know if you've got the bug and will skip some of the frustrations of trying to figure it out on your own.

 

[Tasky]

If not, can anyone recommend anyone to follow on YouTube who publishes good videos that could help, or any good books that would be worth buying?

Well...
The aforementioned Paul Sellers has earned himself a good corner of the market on Newbie woodworkers... Mainly from YouTube.
He has several good books, and a large series of accompanying DVDs if you so desire. If not, he has a STACK of YouTube videos (which are free), in high resolution with high production quality.
He also has an extensive blog, with an articles index and numerous entries on all manner of tools.
Once you have a handle on things and fancy some projects, he offers Woodworking Masterclasses.

But for the absolute basics, he has recently started Common Woodworking as well, which is a great first-timer's primer on buying, sharpening, setting up and using the basic, most common set of tools. There are a few short exercises and simple projects included as well, to get you started.
https://commonwoodworking.com/

However, Sellers has a touch of the hippy about him and can get a bit flowery in his blogs, vlogs and so on. Take or leave it, depending on your preferences and his style is not for everyone. But he's well worth having a look at.

Chris Tribe, a member here, also has some good videos on the basics and I also have one of his books which I'm studying.

Steve Maskery and Peter Sefton, also members here, each have some great stuff particularly on machines and jigs.

I find Rob Cosman can be good for some general advice on tool usage, but he does have a clear sales pitch behind a lot of what he showcases. I was cautioned against this myself when I first started here.

Once you understand the basics, you can look elsewhere and there are plenty more resources to inspire and assist you further!

In the meantime, and in parallel with this, do at least consider a course - Unless you're exceptionally gifted or have a lot of time to practice, there's only so much you'll get from watching and reading. An actual course will, in addition to all the other learning, provide you with someone else to watch you, point out if/how/where you're going wrong and help you develop the correct feel for the tools... the one thing that a video can't provide. They're usually not cheap, though, which is often the biggest drawback.

I would also appreciate advice on what would constitute a ‘must-have’ toolkit for beginners and the best places to buy them.

For the general list (chisels, mallet, plane) Paul Sellers' list on Common Woodworking has it covered pretty well, I think. His blog will give as much chapter and verse on the different types, history and variance as you want, but you can get lost down that particular rabbit hole.

Basically, a lot depends on how much you want to spend.
An old Stanley No 4 plane in good condition might cost you £35 on eBay and be perfectly servicable for several decades. A new plastic-handled one fom B&Q might be cheaper, but it will be cack.
Then you have newer, quality tools like Lee Nelson, Wood River, Veritas, which are great but cost a lot more... like a couple hundred quid, or so.
Chisels are the same - You can spend serious monies on even basic tools, or you can get by on an £8 pack of chisels from Lidl and Aldi.
There are quite a few tools and everyone has his or her own preferences.

For each tool, there are quite a few brands worth considering, and several places where you might find them at decent prices. Ebay is one of the most likely, but you'll need to know a bit about what you're looking for, so have a read of some threads here and the places people have mentioned above.

 

[E-wan]

Hi

I have found
https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com
Good for starting out
you have to pay for his videos but there's a lot in them and it's clear to follow.

He also has a blog and a couple of free YouTube videos for example tips on how to set up the cap iorn on your hand plane

His approach is to exclusively use hand tools but there's no reason the techniques he shows can't be Incorporated into a routine that uses a mixture of hand and power tools

Ewan

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[E-wan]

My approach to improving woodworking skills has been slightly different.

I have a number of projects in the pipeline in decreasing order of size

Starting with something large, a gazebo style garden shelter

And then intending to move on to building a new back gate and a workbench before contemplating trying smaller more intricate constructions.

My aspirations are a little different to some
I have minimal interest in acquiring skills such as making a dovetail joint as my intended use for woodworking skills is maintaining,restoring and eventually building wooden canoes kayaks and boats

Ewan

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[Kibbster]

Thanks everyone, quite a lot to take in but I really appreciate all the good advice. Looks like I better put the kettle on and settle down for some serious reading and video watching

Thanks again.

Mick

 

[Tasky]

For another perspective, you might also want to look at some of Matt Estlea's 'How To' videos on basic tool use.

He's a young, fresh-faced, happy little chappie with some good skills and a fairly nice balance between hand and power tools. He teaches at Rycotewood and works at Axminster, but he's very open and clear about all this, so not really much vested interest in BS-ing about stuff.

He's also quite entertaining to just watch in general.

 

[MikeG.]

........ I have minimal interest in acquiring skills such as making a dovetail joint as my intended use for woodworking skills is maintaining,restoring and eventually building wooden canoes kayaks and boats......

There are arguably more skills involved in boat building than in furniture making. Handling saws and chisels properly, marking out correctly, planing accurately, and so on aren't stand-alone furniture making skills, and with boat-building you have the added complexity of compound curves, and joints involving curved timber. They (hand tool skills) are a basic requirement of any joinery, and are transferable from cutting dovetails to working on a transom. There's some wood-butchery in work on some of the bigger boats, but seriously, you're missing the point if you think that you don't need hand-tool skills to work on the craft you mention.

 

[E-wan]

........ I have minimal interest in acquiring skills such as making a dovetail joint as my intended use for woodworking skills is maintaining,restoring and eventually building wooden canoes kayaks and boats......

There are arguably more skills involved in boat building than in furniture making. Handling saws and chisels properly, marking out correctly, planing accurately, and so on aren't stand-alone furniture making skills, and with boat-building you have the added complexity of compound curves, and joints involving curved timber. They (hand tool skills) are a basic requirement of any joinery, and are transferable from cutting dovetails to working on a transom. There's some wood-butchery in work on some of the bigger boats, but seriously, you're missing the point if you think that you don't need hand-tool skills to work on the craft you mention.

Good point about transferable skills and I definitely want to build my hand tool skills. Just that i can see more direct application for something like a scarf joint than a dovetail but will probably end up practicing both.

Ewan

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[thetyreman]

I would stick with one teacher and use their methods only, the reason is there are conflicting viewpoints on sharpening and other subjects within woodworking, it's easier when you are starting out especially, I'd recommend checking out woodworkingmasterclass.com there's quite a few free projects on there ideal for starting out.

some teachers I like and respect are:

Paul Sellers,
Chris Tribe,
David Charlesworth,
Custard ( user on here )
The English Woodworker
Tom Fidgen

also my favourite method of learning anything isn't through video, it's from reading books, I now have quite a collection.

 

[Kibbster]

Thanks again everyone.

Thetyreman, are there any books you would recommend as a starting point? I was looking at a Chris Tribe book in the library today called Complete Woodworking and that seemed to cover a lot of subjects. Looking on Amazon, there are a number of books such as ‘Woodwork: A Step-by-Step Photographic Guide’ by DK but would you recommend those sort of books? Thanks

 

[Benno]

I've been mucking about with DIY and wood for years, to the point where I fitted our kitchen and converted a van into a camper - not woodworking as such, more joinery but it sparked something in me.

As a result, about a year ago I started with the Youtube thing, bought a few tools and knocked some wood around, trying to make joints that fitted, small projects etc.

But it was only really last summer, when I did Chris Tribe's Beginner course (http://www.christribefurniturecourses.c ... s-courses/) that I realised a) How much I enjoyed working with wood, b) How much there was to learn and c) What tools I ought to spend a bit on to be able to make decent stuff and what tools I could do without.

The advantage of a course is that you get to speak to someone as you're working - unfortunately Youtube doesn't answer back - and no matter how good the presenter, they won't cover every eventuality and I certainly found I could muck something up in new and ever more unusual ways with no clue as to rectifying my mistake.
Having Chris on hand, making a table using various techniques on the course meant I could get advice as I went and also the four of us learned from one another's mistakes, with Chris on hand to help rectify. There were lots of points where we'd stop and Chris would share some tip or advice that would make a job easier, or more accurate just because someone had asked a pertinent question. And all of us asked questions not directly related to the work we were doing, but that led us to other areas not covered by the course.
We also got a lot of good advice regarding buying tools and what to look out for, while trying a combination of hand and power tools helped cement how I wanted to work, using a combination of both.
Most important of all I think, we learned about the importance of sharp edges and how to achieve them, hands on, with someone who could tell us the difference between sharp, and really sharp.

All of the above is slow to come if you're making your mistakes alone, some mistakes I suspect I'd have been making for years without ever realising.

A course isn't cheap, but I reckon I probably saved myself a couple of years of experimentation and possibly a loss of interest as work never came out as perfectly as the Youtube experts (it still doesn't but it's a lot closer and good enough to fool most of the people most of the time). Any new skill you obtain is driven by feeling that you're improving, and I suspect a lot of woodworkers fall by the wayside as they simply can't improve at a rate that satisfies them.

As a result, I've recently given over my garage to woodworking (I've raced cars for years, the garage always had a race car being worked on so it's a big change for me) and bought a bandsaw and planer thicknesser as I'm finding more and more of my evenings spent working with wood.

 

[Tasky]

I was looking at a Chris Tribe book in the library today called Complete Woodworking and that seemed to cover a lot of subjects.

That's the one I have, and a very good one to go for.

I would advocate these two:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Essential-Wood ... ul+sellers
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Working-Wood-A ... ul+sellers

Most of the basic content is covered in his videos, but the books do offer some differences/alternate choices in methods and techniques, as well. If you've got some spare cash, or the library stocks them, they're pretty decent.

Looking on Amazon, there are a number of books such as ‘Woodwork: A Step-by-Step Photographic Guide’ by DK but would you recommend those sort of books? Thanks

Dorling Kindersley books tend to cover a massive variety of subjects and topics, from car racing to chasing lesser-spotted frogs, to tightrope walking, to the Star Wars Universe.... but are usually limited to overviews and general references, with loads of photos but rarely any in-depth detail about anything. They're like a childrens' britannica, really.