Re-commissioning old planes, what's worth your time?

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ED65

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I thought it would be useful to start a thread on this given we're heading into a new season of car boots.

When you buy an old plane, if your goal is a user, then how much work are you realistically looking at and how long should it take?

I think it's usually overstated how much time this should take. How long it can take can be stretched out to days and days of work, but that's usually when doing a full restoration to like-new condition.

If you're new to this, and perhaps if you're not, many demos of clean up and fettling/tuning make it look like more work than it needs to be, with numerous potentially unnecessary steps or individual steps taken too far (I'll go into these more in a later post so this one doesn't run too long). But just getting a plane back into user condition can often be merely a matter of removing light surface rust, sharpening, fettling the cap iron and maybe smoothing out the handles a bit to make them comfortable to hold.

For a user plane as long as you didn't buy a total rust bucket it's likely that you can get 90%+ of old planes up and running in under an hour, and often in less than 20 minutes, if you take the only-what's-necessary route. D_W posted a video recently showing this approach. If you want to make 'er purdy though, well, the time it takes is the time it takes. Removing cracked old finish on the handles, sanding or scraping them smooth and then applying fresh finish, that alone could more than double the time taken up to that point.

Even if you did buy a plane that's literally covered in rust from toe to heel, removing rust might take a while but can be almost entirely a hands-off operation (rust soaks or electrolysis) so little actual effort or time taken away from other work. But if you did want to get the thing up and running fast then it's hard to beat one of those rubber blocks impregnated with abrasive. For the body casting you're looking at under five minutes' work for the sole, both cheeks and the rims. Still under ten for a 7 or an 8.
 
Depends on the price of the plane, I would think.

I bought a 1960s Record 5 1/2 for £3 which was completely covered in rust, had to spend a couple of hours (I think, can't remember exactly) using sandpaper to remove. Luckily it was only thin surface rust on the body, no heavy pitting, but the iron was pitted, I have to put a back bevel on it.

So that was worth it to me.
 
Interesting issue this one.

Personally I've always felt that people UNDERstate the time required to sort out a plane.

Maybe I'm extremely slow, but I've never managed to put a new primary bevel on an old iron in any less than 20/30 minutes (assuming that it was chipped/dinged and totally multi-faceted, which most of the oldies I've bought are).

I use a Tormek and Diamond stones, so granted, if I use a bench grinder it could be quicker but I don't have one.

In my previous post in the other thread I referred to bringing a plane into a decent state meaning going through the sequence in David Charlesworths book - including improving mating surfaces 'twixt frog and body, squaring up/relieving the mouth and flattening the back of the lever cap etc. Even then there's likely to be loads of backlash and/or a slightly wobbly tote that requires more than just tightening the screw.

I know that I could make the plane take a reasonable shaving by doing a lot less, but I want my planes to perform to their best all the time. I really don't think that this can be achieved in anything less than 4 or 5 hours for a standard boot fair find.

Like I said, maybe I'm slow when it comes to planes but thats what it takes me to get them to a point where I'm happy with them.
 
It's a fair point on time. D_W's vid is pretty good on the subject. I think the trick is to find something not so bad unless you enjoy saving stuff, which is also fine.

There is not really a best route through this topic. One person's food is another's poison. I personally like to have a good few vintage tools as they were well made, very effective and built to last, shame to see them go to waste. I also prefer using some of the older stuff too. But in the same breath I use a cheap Irwin panel saw!

Do whatever suits and don't worry too much about it.
 
If you are intending to use the plane to earn your living then probably 1 hour is top whack to bring it to a usable state, but if a hobbyist and you enjoy spending time restoring an old plane then probably several hours is perfectly OK.

John
 
I occasionally renovate old donated planes at one of the Tools with a Mission workshops. Last one, fairly typical condition, took 2 hours. The main attention was to functionality (flattening sole, fitting frog, sharpening blade etc) but there was some attention to appearance as we want the African recipients to feel pride and enjoyment in their tool set. The paintwork gets a coat of black gloss on top of the above. It is decidedly for use, not for factory-fresh restoration, of course.

Keith
 
Whatever makes you happy. I like if I have to to get metal planes in about the shape that I made videos of. I used to like basket cases, but resell a couple and you find out quickly it's not worth the time.

For woodies, sole, wedge and iron,..I'll redo those things, but that's about it. Any more and you might as well make a new plane.
 
John15":3d4bx2rm said:
If you are intending to use the plane to earn your living then probably 1 hour is top whack to bring it to a usable state, but if a hobbyist and you enjoy spending time restoring an old plane then probably several hours is perfectly OK.

John

I think this is the key point.

If you're a professional, looking to acquire a tool, the equation is simple - the total money you save by restoring a cheap plane (instead of buying a new Veritas/LN/QS, ready to go) must exceed the income you could get from your time by doing your normal work.

For an amateur, other factors can apply;

An amateur might choose to spend lots of time restoring a tool because they're short of cash, or because they simply enjoy the restoration process itself.

If you're a hobbyist, restoration might be as enjoyable a hobby as woodwork.

BugBear
 
I just watched DW's video (on my lunch break) and saw how quickly he did the job, especially getting the iron back in use.

Now I need to buy a grinder.

The thing that's always put me off is that I've read/heard about damaging the iron by overheating (I know NOTHING about metal - I mean NOTHING. I know more about women than I do about metal, and my wife assures me I know diddly squat about women)

Clearly my fears are somewhat unfounded. It may also be the case that I've been spending too long doing things that don't matter.

Having said that the plane in the video was in a much better state than the oldies I usually end up with - barely any rust at all - handles intact (maybe I need to stop getting hold of such junk!!)

Still, nothing will stop me from getting hold of a new Clifton block plane once the kids have been fed this month!!
 
G S Haydon":2b5tsqdd said:
Do whatever suits and don't worry to much about it.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Also worth bearing in mind that the first time you do anything takes much longer than the fourth or fifth time. Don't expect to have a perfectly functioning plane in ten minutes if you haven't fettled one before - take your time, enjoy the process of learning, and get to know your plane. Time spent fiddling and familiarising will be repaid many times over later on.
 
I've never really bothered to "restore" a plane as such, beyond scraping rust off a sole (if necessary) not counting dismantling and setting up. If rusty all over a dunk in linseed oil half n half with turps is good. Have glued broken handles back together.
Sharpen, set and off you go!
Ditto most saws.
 
Jacob":2zele0gs said:
I've never really bothered to "restore" a plane as such, beyond scraping rust off a sole (if necessary) not counting dismantling and setting up. If rusty all over a dunk in linseed oil half n half with turps is good. Have glued broken handles back together.
Sharpen, set and off you go!
Ditto most saws.

Why scrape the rust off the sole? A bit of working with it will clean it up - and the brown skid-marks it leaves in the meantime won't matter much if the job's to be painted after completion. :lol:
 
Jacob":3tsezv08 said:
I've never really bothered to "restore" a plane as such, beyond scraping rust off a sole (if necessary) not counting dismantling and setting up.

Nice story, but you've told us another one before about your process for flattening soles. Does that count as restoration?

BugBear
 
Making serviceable is one thing, "restoration" is usually another entirely.
 
You really only need three bench planes, maybe four. In this context, spend as much time as you want. It'll be a drop in the bucket in a lifetime of woodworking.

If you have planes all over the place, for whatever the reason, then what's in play is something tangential to the question.
 
If you were looking at wooden planes for the first time maybe as cheaper alternative to a 7/8 jointer plane which you can't really afford would anyone have any advice in what to look for? I realise Im probably opening up a whole new can of worms. I'm asking for a friend lol.
 
Bm101":2tcd9w2f said:
If you were looking at wooden planes for the first time maybe as cheaper alternative to a 7/8 jointer plane which you can't really afford would anyone have any advice in what to look for? I realise Im probably opening up a whole new can of worms. I'm asking for a friend lol.
I've got a 26" woody which is very useful on long work pieces but my steel planes get a lot more use. Woodies are very cheap as a rule.
 
Thanks Jacob. I realise there's probably a whole new set of skills with wooden planes so I'm a bit hesitant. Setting the blade I've read about and I reckon I'd get around it with a bit of trial and error. I'll have a bit more of a look around I think. There's no mad rush for this one. Appreciate the response.
Cheers
Chris
 
+1 for Jacob. I have a 30" woodie which again gets only occasional use, but when needed it is magnificent. I usually use it on its side against an improvised long shooting board (piece of MDF with a factory edge on it, clamped to the bench) and after a few strokes the edge is done.

Woodies are not that hard to use, anyway. Just need to use them a bit to get used to the balance.

Keith
 
Bm101":3przgye8 said:
If you were looking at wooden planes for the first time maybe as cheaper alternative to a 7/8 jointer plane which you can't really afford would anyone have any advice in what to look for? I realise Im probably opening up a whole new can of worms. I'm asking for a friend lol.

The tweener for a try plane and a jointer is a long plane. If you get a crisp one 24 inches long or so with a 2 1/2 inch wide iron, you might find yourself using it more than a metal jointer.

Last year, I made myself a 28 inch jointer plane and what I thought was a try plane at 24 inches. I haven't used the jointer plane in quite some time, though I've match jointed edges over 4 feet. A freshly made 28 inch plane is almost 10 pounds and a bit less inviting to use than it would seem. Some of the older dried out planes are closer to 8 pounds.

The wedge has to fit right, the cap iron be in good shape and the iron sharp (and the handle fit the user) to use a wooden plane. None of those things is seriously difficult to do but for someone who new to planes, they are probably out of range.
 
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