Challenges?!

[Chris152]

Just found them at the top of the Woodturning page! How come they don't happen any more? I was sat thinking about suggesting something like that, and the ones I've seen look like they were fun/ interesting.

 

[CHJ]

How come they don't happen any more? .

Lack of member interest/participation.

 

[Chris152]

Could we go for just one a year? Or just do one in a while, that sort of thing? I don't have to organise it, so easy to say, less easy if you're the one doing it!

Edit - rather than the 'best' piece, I was thinking diversity - "what could you make with a piece of wood X x X x X cm?" (Those aren't kisses.) Just to see what different/ diverse things people come up with.

 

[CHJ]

I think the following Screen Shot of SVB's attempt to get some positive member participation may be an indication of the frustrations of trying to generate participation.

319 views 6 participants.

Much the same with the last challenges run in 2016
Very sad when you compare with the viewing figures that would have you believe there is an interest.

 

[Chris152]

Point taken, Chas. I might have a go at starting an ad hoc challenge along the lines I was thinking of - nothing lost, maybe something gained!
Thanks, C.

 

[Dalboy]

It is hard enough to get anyone to post any work let alone enter a competition. They all just like to talk about machines and give advice yet don't seem to post much in the way of what they have produced.

I know I have not posted much since Christmas but I am working on some flatwork at the moment

I think the following Screen Shot of SVB's attempt to get some positive member participation may be an indication of the frustrations of trying to generate participation.

319 views 6 participants.

Much the same with the last challenges run in 2016
Very sad when you compare with the viewing figures that would have you believe there is an interest.

I think the problem being is that it is always the same few who take part. I must confess not commenting on that one Chas but I have not done any Hybrid blanks but did make posts on all of the others

 

[marcros]

I found Simon's weekly topic interesting. Some topics more than others, but all well worth reading. I didn't contribute because I have no hybrid experience.

 

[CHJ]

.
I think the problem being is that it is always the same few who take part. .

It seems to be the same whichever forum or social media group regarding actual regular contributors, over the years I've been on line associated with wood turning I've noticed that as the free to use social media platforms and OLS sites have evolved with their easy and casual sign-up seem run parallel with the reduction of private personal paid for web sites and contributions don't seem to reflect viewing audience.

I get the impression that things are falling foul of the revenue generating front and supplying content for free on forums to some extent is taking a back seat to the remuneration potential of posting or submitting elsewhere.
Not that anybody needing extra pocket money is to be decried for this if that is what takes up any of their spare time.

As to why so few folks are willing to post their work in a manner that encourages discussion or constructive critique I'm at a loss, back in back in 2007we had some reasonable discussion on the merits or otherwise of pieces, but by 2014 it was getting difficult to justify the moderating time cataloguing them due to the lack of submissions and member participation.
Is the latter due to not appreciating the difference between constructive critique and or risk of comments taken as criticism.

 

[Chris152]

As to why so few folks are willing to post their work in a manner that encourages discussion or constructive critique I'm at a loss, back in back in 2007we had some reasonable discussion on the merits or otherwise of pieces, but by 2014 it was getting difficult to justify the moderating time cataloguing them due to the lack of submissions and member participation.
Is the latter due to not appreciating the difference between constructive critique and or risk of comments taken as criticism.

If that's right, it's a great shame. I started turning under a year ago and have had nothing but positive support/ critique from members that's been incredibly helpful to me. People who could use advice/ support/ feedback are missing a trick if they're not posting work.

 

[sunnybob]

from my own observations, having been a member here sine 2014, which was also the year I first attempted to make stuff with wood....
A question posted here will get you all the help you need, with only an occasional smart alec reply (which as you become part of the group you accept as a form of friendship). The accumulated knowledge is huge and this is my most used woodworking forum for that reason.
But....
A picture posted here WILL get criticism, and yes, even constructive criticism is still criticism, and for a newbie thats very depressing even when its completely true.

Also, there are some very talented and skilled people here, who when they post stuff they have made, make all us wood butchers hurriedly delete the photo we were just about to post.

My own boxes are a case in point (I hasten to add this is NOT a whinge, just a fact), They are eye catching and I do sell them, but they are most certainly not to a standard to compare with others here. Most of my boxes cost less than a set of hinges on a top quality box, so a "show and tell" thread wont see many of my pics. The very first box I posted here got one reply, and that was to tell me I had made a mistake on the joints. By comparison, on an american forum i use I post all of my boxes, and I get universally nice comments.

So as far as my experience is concerned, on this forum, the bar is set too high for mere amateurs to compete, thereby limiting the pictures posted.

Just for clarity, I repeat this is not sour grapes, its just the way it is. 8)

 

[bwlossie]

I think a lot of this could also be put down to the likes of soufly and blister. I know comments and critisisms can be a big help but for someone trying to learn it is very deflating to get comments like that.
I don't post pictures but have in the past asked questions. AND had very helpful replies. I will be 80 in 5 weeks time, this is a hobby for me so derogatery remarks will not help at all.

 

[John15]

I think a lot of this could also be put down to the likes of soufly and blister. I know comments and critisisms can be a big help but for someone trying to learn it is very deflating to get comments like that.
I don't post pictures but have in the past asked questions. AND had very helpful replies. I will be 80 in 5 weeks time, this is a hobby for me so derogatery remarks will not help at all.

I don't think there are many comments on members work that are deliberately derogatory, it's more the way they are badly worded but with no intention of hurting a persons feelings.
I post photos of pieces of furniture I make (2 or 3 a year) and hold my breath that there won't be any untactful comments. I've had helpful criticism which I'm pleased to receive but nothing nasty thank goodness.
So, to those who do comment on other members work please continue as it's very valuable to us who are endeavouring to improve our skills, but always word it in such a way that it can't be taken as offensive.

John

 

[Dalboy]

I try my best to make a comment on work and if something is wrong will try my best to say what it is hopefully without putting the person down and also in a helpful manner. It is no good posting something and getting a lot of "yes that is nice" when obviously there are faults that can be rectified by something as a kind word saying so.
Comments like it is rubbish or it looks wrong without an explanation does not help anyone.
When I post pictures at the end of the description I put(when I remember) "C & C welcome" this lets people know I want comments. Luckily I am thicked skinned and know when a comment is justified.
Without constructive criticism how are the new turners going to learn I know that it is not easy to put things down in writing and with the aid of the smilies.
With some of the members that I have known on this forum for a long time and we know how to take the criticism on each others work without causing offence.
When talking about the design of a piece we have to remember that it is the person's own design so that part of the work is more difficult to make comments on it.
This could be a subject all in its own right.

After all that please post work and let people give you some hopefully useful information on how to improve your work.

And if you are commenting try to make it useful information and polite(I am sure most here are anyway)

 

[marcros]

C&C is always a difficult one. Beginners often only want positive comments, and I think that generally the forum is encouraging. "nice item" doesn't help that much more than "its rubbish", but at least it shows people have seen it. The only couple of times that I have seen really negative comments, the work was absolutely dreadful- there was nothing positive about it. the item wasn't from a current member.

We have some experts on the forum too, and what may be "nice tight joints on that, well done" to one person, may get a comment of "you have overcut that mark by 1mm", or "I don't like the knife lines left on your dovetails". It is no less relevant, but the experts are likely to be compared to perfection. the hardest part is knowing the level of expertise that the poster has- we know the regulars, but not new posters.

The other issue is when I have already seen the item placed on 3 different forums, facebook, a facebook group etc. It is a posters right to put it where they want to, but I only comment on things once, the first place I see them.

 

[CHJ]

There are a couple of Links at the Top of this Thread regarding the difference between Criticism and Critique.

Unfortunately like trying to improve your making skills, adjusting to providing constructive Critique is a skill in itself as is the Recipients ability to not take offence at comments intended as being helpful but may not have been worded with enough skill to avoid them from taking offence.

If you want to improve your output quality then there is little to be gained from showing your work to folks who just tick the 'Like Button' or say 'That's Nice' to everything.

Appreciation of the source of comments can also be very educational, just like show or competition judging, has the person making the comment or judging shown a personal preference for style etc. that may be at odds with your preferences.

Are you submitting with the knowledge that it's going to get a particular reaction from specific sources that you may not like or are you looking for advice to develop your own style and technique and accepting the inevitable with the hope that there may just be a snippet of valuable insight somewhere.

 

[sunnybob]

There will always be wallflowers, wherever you are, dance floor, birthday party, woodworking forum. Thats reality.
A forum is a very impersonal thing, and I dont know how to change that.
Overall this site works very well for me, so I dont think all that much needs changing.

One way things could be done (and I'm typing this as I'm thinking it, so idont expect it to be perfect) would be to have a "show and tell" page, but without any replies allowed on the page.
A kind of "this is what I do", which would allow people to see it, but not publicly praise or damn. A facility for anyone to message the poster would be fine, then if there were any extreme comments they could be referred to the moderators.

The thread we have now is so bogged down with replies and comments that I just dont bother to try to search through it all to see if anything actually has been made.

 

[Robbo3]

The thread we have now is so bogged down with replies and comments that I just dont bother to try to search through it all to see if anything actually has been made.

Do you mean the thread in General Woodworking? If so probably best to post about it there rather than in the turning section.

Otherwise, not much to disagree with in this thread.

Luckily for me photos don't show the faults in my pieces like seeing the items close up.

I only post them as an aid not for praise.

Edit: I should also add that people like Chas who regularly show their work & methods are a credit to the wood turning community.

 

[CHJ]

….One way things could be done (and I'm typing this as I'm thinking it, so idont expect it to be perfect) would be to have a "show and tell" page, but without any replies allowed on the page.
A kind of "this is what I do", which would allow people to see it, but not publicly praise or damn. A facility for anyone to message the poster would be fine, then if there were any extreme comments they could be referred to the moderators.

The thread we have now is so bogged down with replies and comments that I just dont bother to try to search through it all to see if anything actually has been made.

Any thread, be it the one quoted or any other that just results in lots of unsearchable subjects or images is of little use to anyone trying to look for an existing solution to their problem or inspiration on design or how to tackle a project.

Individual threads per subject in the projects area with a descriptive title add greatly to the resources of the Forum as far as searching is concerned as would editing of specific title comments when individual posts are made.

 

[sunnybob]

I had to go and look it up because I had forgotten the name of the thread #-o
Its called projects, there are just short of 84,000 posts in it. i suspect at least 65,000 have no relationship to the item being displayed.

Chas, my "suggestion" wasnt about a thread where you asked for help. All the other threads are where we post if we need advice (which I often do). My comment was straight and simple "this is what I make" and if anyone wanted to comment it could be done privately purely and simply to stop the thread wandering.
I must repeat though, that was only a suggestion and I have no particular axe to grind (oh no! a sharpening thread! :shock: :shock: =D> )

 

[Steliz]

I'm not one for blowing my own trumpet and I don't seek compliments so it took a brave moment from me to post pictures of items I'd made as a beginner turner. I did it twice and got no comments either time so I assumed that they were dung and everyone was too polite to tell me.