A couple of odd planes

[Flartybarty]

Long time since I've posted on here. I've got two planes that have puzzled me for a couple of years. I'm hoping that someone will be able to give me some answers as to manufacturer and/or purpose.

The first is a 23" jointer which is very similar to the Stanley series 1 jointer (except for the length). The frog has no adjustments other than the two fixing screws which can be loosened to adjust the mouth. There are NO marlings on the plane anywhere. The lever cap is, AFAIK, the original. The front knob (2" dia) is Brazilian Rosewood - the real stuff, and almost certainly original. The toat is ? and almost certainly a replacement because it is very uncomfortable. I'm 6' and using it involves sort of crouching over the work. It might be OK for someone of, say 5'. I intend to replace it when I can find a suitable piece of rosewood. I've searched on line and have come up with nothing. I had thought that it was an early Stanley which had been altered but the frog, while similar to a Stanley frog, is, I'm sure, original and obviously intended to be used with a laminated cut iron. Any ideas ?

The second is an e*** purchase and was a battered baby. The toat was a grotesque lump of oak and the much of the nose had been removed, lord knows why. There was a scrap of rosewood with a nail through it serving as a bridge. No blade. I've cleaned it up, added a brass lever cap, a new toat, and a Norris-type adjuster which I had spare. Purists will scream at this but the plane was pretty far gone when I got it. The mouth has been opened and I can do nothing about that. Overstuffed infill is mahogany, curiously laid on a bed of soft pine. (The toat is a work in progress BTW). The odd thing is the integral depth stop on the right side, which appears to have been cast along with the rest of the plane. It's not been welded and is quite "graceful". The overstuffing incorporates this "flange", so it's original. I've seen nothing like it. It's not a badger, maybe a so-called "panel plane". Again, any ideas ?

 

[AndyT]

Very interesting. From your photos it does all look original, with the japanning inside the slot for the cap screw matching the rest. Do you think the iron and cap iron are original? Is there an intelligible mark? I'm wondering if they belong to a wooden plane and have been swapped in - easier to assess with the bits in front of you.

I can't offer any evidence yet but I wonder if it might be quite early, when metal planes were not yet universal. There were lots of other makers besides Stanley, though none were anything like as successful, so they are rarer.

As for the other, I wonder if it's been modified from a smoother, with the sole cut to take the rebating iron, then reinforced with the "depth stop/fence" extra bit?
Who'd need that? Someone doing a lot of rebating. Possibly a pattern maker - who would have had the skill to do it himself.

I don't think you'll ever see another one like either of them!

 

[ED65]

Congrats on your buys, those are some real beauties! I hope they perform as well as they look.

Just an observation on the rear handle/tote on the jointer. It could still be original, or modelled directly on its predecessor, despite being so uncomfortable for you. There were plenty of early metallic planes and some transitionals where the maker experimented with handle shapes and proportions and some look like they'd be downright painful to use in earnest!

 

[Flartybarty]

As far as the first is concerned, I know tat in the States, there were a number of makers producing metal planes with Stanley look-alike bodies but with iron screw lever caps, not brass. It's faintly possible that this made it's way here before the war. Smith's book on Transitional planes might help but I have to save up my pennies first ! As for the second, the depth stop is definitely a part of the original plane, not an afterthought. I don't think it is a pattern makers plane, such were almost invariably in brass or gunmetal.

However, thank you for your thoughts !

 

[AndyT]

As far as the first is concerned, I know tat in the States, there were a number of makers producing metal planes with Stanley look-alike bodies but with iron screw lever caps, not brass. It's faintly possible that this made it's way here before the war. Smith's book on Transitional planes might help but I have to save up my pennies first !

I only have Volume 1 (1827-1927) but I have been flicking through looking at the pictures.

As said, there were makers offering planes like yours, with screw lever caps. But I can't see any match in there for your plane. There were some early iron planes without adjusters but they had wedges to hold the blade. Later models with a lever cap all had some sort of adjuster, presumably to compete with Stanley.
I'm assuming there's no hidden adjuster on your plane.

 

[kwigly]

Perhaps the "depth stop" is a flange made to run in a track on a shooting board, and the "grotesque block of oak" was an angled toat to suit ?

 

[Flartybarty]

No, there's no sign of any adjustment mechanism on the first plane. I'm wondering if this was possibly made by one of the heavy engineering firms such as those that made railway locomotives. I understand that they did make tools for their employees in the 19th century but not sure if such ran to planes. (It is possible though, given the amount of woodwork in the old carriages).

as far as the second is concerned, I can assure you that the toat was most definitely NOT original. It was basically a lump of rough oak with a hand hold cut though. The mortice it sat in was 1-1/2" wide which made for a little trouble when fitting a replacement and required a little sculpture to make a comfortable handle which also fitted into such a wide hole. I tried to use a mahogany as close to the original as possible. As said, I still have to finish it.

 

[Flartybarty]

Another point is that on the 2nd plane, I had briefly wondered if the "flange" had been welded on to the side. While I suppose that is possible, it could not be an afterthought by some early user since the overstuffing carries on over the edge of the "flange" - Ergo, it is contemporary with the original plane and not a later addition. My best guess is this is a one-off produced to order. I just wish the mouth hadn't been opened.

 

[Trevanion]

Another point is that on the 2nd plane, I had briefly wondered if the "flange" had been welded on to the side. While I suppose that is possible, it could not be an afterthought by some early user since the overstuffing carries on over the edge of the "flange" - Ergo, it is contemporary with the original plane and not a later addition. My best guess is this is a one-off produced to order. I just wish the mouth hadn't been opened.

I would've thought it's some specialist rebate plane made to order for someone who did a lot of one depth size of rebate, hence probably why the mouth is a little more open than you would find on others like a Norris because it was designed to hog out material fast and aggressively as opposed to taking little fine shavings. The only thing that it's really missing is some kind of second fence underneath the sole of the plane to give your rebate width, but there isn't even a (visible) way to mount one to the plane so that has me stumped.