Working hard maple in larger sections?

[ondablade]

Hi guys. Just wondering in connection with deciding the timber to use on my workbench project what hard maple is like to buy and work in larger sections?

I've ripped and planed lighter strip for a friend out of rough sawn material, and it seemed absolutely fine. The books seem to think so too, but on the other hand this piece sounds a bit worrying: http://www.thewoodbox.com/data/wood/mapleinfo.htm I don't want to pay out a lot for it and make a bags of it.

I've 4 hp Hammer machines, everything will be nice and sharp and i plan to buy a 40T or so rip blade. I'm well set up with Bessey parallel and other clamps, although i've never glued up anything of this sort of size before.

The bench looks like coming out of about 2 in rough sawn material which would need to plane clean at 1 5/8+ for the 5 in sq laminated legs, and the 4 in wide laminations (edge on) to be glued up for the tops. Also for the stretchers.

I guess the questions that come to mind are what widths it tend to come in at 2 in rough sawn kiln dried 1st quality, can i expect to get at least 1 5/8 thickness planed up out of this 2 in stock, and is it hard to work - does it glue, plane, drill, mortice and finish relatively painlessly?

What to avoid and look out for when buying? Is cupping upon machining likely to be an issue, and does it equilibriate quickly - i'd be hoping to start work after giving it about a month in the shop after buying.

It seems to be commonly used for workbenches. Chris Schwarz himself uses yellow pine on the basis that despite dinging a bit easier it has good stiffness and other properties for this sort of use, and is much cheaper in the US. Chances are it's more expensive here, but you never know.

Thoughts anybody?

ian

 

[Benchwayze]

I've not used much maple, but never had any real problems with it. It does need sharp tools though, but then so does any timber if we're honest.

I do have a small table-saw, but for initial ripping I tend to use the bandsaw, with a 3 tooth per inch, skip-tooth blade. I allow enough waste to dimension on the planer/thicknesser.

As for Southern Yellow Pine have a look at this link.

http://www.sykestimber.co.uk/timber/sou ... -pine.html

The Maple too is priced at 'Medium', which usually means about £30.00 to £40.00 a cube. Plus VAT probably. But you pay that anywhere. Delivery is good too, but they are leary of selling just one plank.
I have never had any poor timber from this firm.

I just noticed you are 'over the water' so probably Sykes isn't for you. But the site has loads of info.


HTH

John :ho2

 

[PAC1]

I made my bench out of maple and had no problems machining it up. I bought 2 inch (52mm) stock locally and cut it into 3x2 for the top. Machined 2 edges and one face then glued 4 or 5 together and the next day put them through the thicknesser. I had two sets made up like this and then very carefully glued the two together. Thereafter it is a hand plane job!

you should get 1 3/4 out of the 2 inch stock.

I am not sure I would go with a 40T rip blade my 24T coped perfectly well.

 

[jasonB]

You should be able to buy 9x2 without much problem and in the short lengths you need for the legs the 1 5/8" should be easy, more like 1 3/4"

40T is a few too many for ripping and its more likely to have a higher top rake for general use, assuming you are using a 300mm blade then 20-30T or even the Hammer ripping blades that have 14T with the flat top tooth profile, I have a similar ripping blade on my Kity and it works well

You will want good extraction on the planner as Maple tends to produce wide shavings rather than chips so weak airflow will have your duckting blocking.

Jason

 

[OPJ]

Like Jason, I'm also certain you would be better off buying a saw blade with less teeth for ripping. 40t 'combination' blades tend to be okay with thinner timber but, I do think you'd be better off with a designated ripping blade.

Over here, the price of SYP is approximately double that of 'unsorted' redwood (the Scandinavian stuff).

 

[awkwood]

On a 12" or 315mm blade, 24, 28 or at most 32 teeth for ripping
48 teeth is a general purpose blade, slow ripping speed, slightly rough crosscut

 

[FatFreddysCat]

I agree with others about the number of teeth for ripping, but a small point about maple, sycamore and beech - when cross-cutting it's better to use a newer blade with the correct clearance angles on the teeth. Worn or many times sharpened blades seem to cause burning on cross cuts with those three species in particular

 

[Modernist]

Maple is fine but may have some difficult grain and can be b hard.

You'd be much better off with a 26 tooth ripping blade from say cutting solutions than the standard Hammer item which I binned.

 

[ondablade]

Ta muchly guys, very reassuring to get that sort of input.

Sounds like the maple is pretty stable once kiln dried too.

I'll go for it unless the price proves crazy - building the bench is something i don't want to have to do again if i can help it. Can't find local prices on the web - the locals don't like to publish them. Probably in the hope of ripping people off.

Sounds like a dedicated rip blade is the way to go too. I'm cautious about buying Hammer blades as well as i think they probably are not the top grade.

The plan is to buy the timber and leave it to sit while i install the dust system and wire the shop.

Thanks again,

ian

 

[Max Power]

Ondablade, why are you set on using maple? The americans only use it because it is plentiful and cheap over there. The timber of choice over here has always been beech for the same reasons. Maple over here will cost considerably more than beech and will perform no better job, so save your money to spend on something else.

 

[ondablade]

My only reason for thinking strongly of maple was precisely that Alan - there's lots of experience in the US, and it seems to work well. It's genuinely very highly ding resistant (on whatever the scale is), quite a lot more so than beech and oak it seems.

The plan is to price some options once the timber merchants open up again after the hols.

I know beech is often used, but i've no experience with it and i seemed to be picking up the impression that it can be prone to movement, and a bit cranky to work.

But i'm open to correction, as it was only that. Am i barking up the wrong tree?

Chris Schwarz talks of using yellow pine as a lower cost option too, but i figured that being imported too it probably wasn't going to be a lot cheaper.

ian

 

[BMac]

Hi Ian,

I don't know if this is any good to you or not but I built the top of my bench with scaffold planks. I don't know what type of wood it is though. Now, it is no work of art but it is very serviceable and the three lengths I bolted to an angle iron frame shrunk about 3mm at one part but I didn't let them stabilise for long before using them. However, 18 years later they are still good.

The planks I used came from Haldene Fisher but there is a wood importer in Duncrue Street, Belfast who is supposed to be very good for more classy wood than scaffold planks. I forget the name but I can get it for you if you are interested.

Obviously I don't know where you are so this might be useless to you.

Brendan

 

[ondablade]

Hi Brendan, thanks for that. I'm near Dublin, but have bought quite a lot of bathroom related stuff from Haldane Fisher in Newry as it happens.

I have a couple names in the North i was going to try, McGregor in Belfast and Bellas (?) in Coleraine. Speak up please if i'm missing a good choice.

My current bench is softwood, i'd thought i might pretend to myself i was serious and build a fancy one.

ian

 

[BMac]

Ian,

I used these guys for Red Cedar and they seemed to have a lot of other stock (and were busy).

Murdock Hardwood Industries Ltd Timber Importers & Agents
Tel: 028 3026 1011| 51, Rathfriland Rd, Newry, County Down BT34 1LD

Also,

Irvin & Sellers
24-28 Duncrue St, Belfast, BT3 9AR
Tel:028 9035 1224

And,

Brooks
27 Duncrue St, Belfast, BT3 9AR
Tel:028 9074 4201

I will talk to a friend in Belfast because I think 'Brooks' is the one he uses for exotics but I want to make sure.

There are actually a lot more timber importers and merchants than I thought here so maybe a run through yell.com might produce results.

Brendan

 

[ondablade]

That's great Brendan, very much appreciated as prices tend to be better on your side and it's not patriotism to pay the typical 40% over UK (to drive up costs in the economy) we get hit with for most stuff here.

Belfast is a very handy run nowadays since the motorway has opened...

ian

 

[BMac]

You're welcome Ian,

As you said, the Belfast/Dublin run is a lot more pleasant and efficient now - as shown by the number of ROI registrations up here.

Hope you get sorted out OK.

Brendan

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Ian,

I don't know if this is any good to you or not but I built the top of my bench with scaffold planks. I don't know what type of wood it is though. Now, it is no work of art but it is very serviceable and the three lengths I bolted to an angle iron frame shrunk about 3mm at one part but I didn't let them stabilise for long before using them. However, 18 years later they are still good.

The planks I used came from Haldene Fisher but there is a wood importer in Duncrue Street, Belfast who is supposed to be very good for more classy wood than scaffold planks. I forget the name but I can get it for you if you are interested.

Obviously I don't know where you are so this might be useless to you.

Brendan

Be assured that scaffold planks are an excellent grade of softwood. They have to be; workers' lives and limbs depend on them. If you are lucky, you might find some of the older, pitch-pine planks, a full 35mm thick (Approx) Pitch-pine is highly durable, quite hard for a softwood, and smells great when you work it. It's easily worked, but it can gum up your planes after a while!

John

 

[OPJ]

Well, I think maple could be a better choice for the bench top. There's little wrong with beech and that would be fine for the frame though, it's not renown for its stability, where maple is actually quite good. I've worked with locally-grown beech several times this year and have found it can split/crack quite badly as it dries (more so than any other hardwood I've worked with). If you do go with beech, I'd be inclined to look for European 'steamed' beech, which should be more stable, or so they say.

 

[BradNaylor]

My bench top is plywood, and I replace it every year or so.

If I was going for solid wood though, I would joint up a couple of pieces of kitchen worktop to give me the size I wanted. Quick, easy, and ideally suited to the job as movement will be minimal.

Species? The world's your lobster!

Brad

 

[ondablade]

Follow up to this story.

Now it gets interesting. It's still not cheap, but it turns out that John Boddy Timber can deliver prime German white or steamed beech to my workshop near Dublin for very approximately 1/3 less than their cost for hard maple or yellow pine. http://www.john-boddy-timber.ltd.uk/Pic ... ech_a.html

(the high cost of yellow pine was a surprise - it seem it's sold routinely as a construction timber for very small money in the US - stacked up in your local B&Q or whatever)

The beech comes out at around £26 or £27 per cuft when the transport cost is stripped out for 2 in boards selected to match my cutting list.

They say it's absolutely top quality, that it can be expected to machine well. Which counts for a lot, as they come across as being a solid operation, and they do their own kiln drying.

My grandfather did a lot of business with Boddy's back in the 50s (he ran a sawmill), i've an old uncle on my case to buy from them.

Hard maple or white oak are available over here for similar money to the beech, and ash quite a bit more cheaply - but i'm cautious about the grading and condition.

At this stage i'm leaning heavily towards the beech...

Guess i'm keen on the idea of hardwood Brad, though the chances are something man made can do just as good a job...

ian

PS ripping down the beech would certainly provide the opportunity to check out the anti-kickback routines we've talked on the other thread.