Woodworkers squares - why?

[DTR]

But there is a firm impression (successful advertising) especially in the minds of many beginners that these posh tools are essential and will radically improve your woodwork.

I expect that many beginners who have problems with planing question whether it is the tool or their technique that's at fault. Buying a LV / LN / etc takes a variable out of the equation :wink:

 

[Jacob]

But there is a firm impression (successful advertising) especially in the minds of many beginners that these posh tools are essential and will radically improve your woodwork.

I expect that many beginners who have problems with planing question whether it is the tool or their technique that's at fault. Buying a LV / LN / etc takes a variable out of the equation :wink:

Well that's the party line. Unfortunately it isn't true, however often it is chanted.
It might arrive in perfect outa the box condition, already set and ready but after a few minutes work it'll need setting, sharpening etc just like any other.
But it most likely won't be ready OTB in any case. It might even be faulty (see crumbly chisel and other threads). It'll certainly be difficult to sharpen (thick A2 steel etc) and if Norris style it'll be difficult to adjust.
Whatever the virtues of the posh planes the beginner is going to have to learn how to use and maintain them just like any other.
OTH if they were all perfect, like throwaway razors or Stanley knife blades - every one sharp and set, no adjustment required or possible, then that might just take the variable out of the equation.

 

[jimi43]

I agree with both points DTR and Jacob.

But I think I understand where DTR is coming from and the point is that the well known phrase about obtaining a mirror finish from excrement comes to mind. :mrgreen:

Some of the modern cheap "planes" are so bad that whatever you did with one, you wouldn't be able to flatten or smooth anything with it. There are levels of ability going up the quality range with tools and some of these fall below the critial "just about does the job" line.

The ubiquitous Stanley/Record Bailey design is a common starting value that beginners and experts alike can use and get results. The quality of those results may be relative to a broad understanding of the tool itself...including the skills of tuning, sharpening, cleaning and general refurbishment...which will make the tool perform in an optimum fashion.

But...I have no doubt whatever, that the higher quality planes can perform even better, perhaps easier, perhaps faster, perhaps with better finish results.

At the end of the day...it's down to affordability for most people, businesses and hobbyists alike. And if someone wants to pay over the odds for something because it looks good and they smile everytime they use it....good for them!

Jim

 

[GazPal]

At the end of the day...it's down to affordability for most people, businesses and hobbyists alike. And if someone wants to pay over the odds for something because it looks good and they smile everytime they use it....good for them!

Jim

I agree 500% and it's simply a matter of personal preference and choice.

--------------

John,

if I'd intended my simple Linford Christie analogy to be far more complex or nit-picky I could have gone into far greater detail, but didn't think it necessary or incorrect. It was simply a means of illustrating the fact that whilst quality tools may well enhance performance, they're only part of the overall equation. Adequate study and practise (Partnered with tool knowledge) will always influence performance far more than reliance upon tools (High end or otherwise) alone.

You can't polish a cowpat unless it's fossilized. :lol:

If someone is serious in his/her endeavours the norm is to invest in quality tooling that can be justified in terms of intended skill level, intended use and suited to his/her budget.

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Mythbusters proved you can polish a cowpat, but you are still left with a cowpat.


Pete

 

[jimi43]

Hi,

Mythbusters proved you can polish a cowpat, but you are still left with a cowpat.


Pete

But they obtained the optimum edge when they managed to get two faeces to meet at a single point! :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[Scouse]

Taxi for Jim...

 

[alan2001]

Interesting thread, in which I will make my first post. 8)

I've recently become suspicious of my 200mm Stanley square, which has a black plastic handle and a steel (now rusty) blade. Upon testing it using the methods described on this forum I discovered that it's 'off' after only a few months' use. Bloody annoying but at least I have something to blame. :wink:

So I know this isn't really a 'what type should I buy' type of thread, but... I've kind of got my heart set on one of those black Bahco squares, which are punched out of a single piece of steel. They would appear to have the accuracy of an engineer's square, without all the weight, yes?

They come in various sizes, i.e. 200, 300, and 400mm. So getting to the point, which size is "best" for general use, in you folks' opinion? I've found my 200mm square to be quite handy but I'm often frustrated that it's not quite long enough for marking up etc.

I can't post links yet but if you search for "Bahco 9045B300" you should find it. Thanks for any replies.

 

[AndyT]

Hi Alan, welcome to the forum.

I think you've answered your own question - the best size is one that's just big enough, without being clumsy or getting in the way. So, for marking round ordinary size furniture components, your 200 mm square is fine. But when you want to check an assembled cupboard, you'll need something bigger. So buy two squares!

I've not used the Bahco ones but I expect they would be accurate enough for woodwork.

 

[alan2001]

Thanks for the welcome.

So buy two squares!

Ahah! That's all the validation I need for my purchase decision! Perhaps if I buy *three* I'll become an even better woodworker. My only concern now is that they're not expensive enough. :lol:

 

[jimi43]

Having just counted the number of squares I have in the workshop...I realised that I might have far to many and am approaching an embarrassing "collector" status.

I need to get to the root of the problem! :mrgreen:

(That taxi's taking its time!)

Jim

 

[woodbloke]

Having just counted the number of squares I have in the workshop...I realised that I might have far to many and am approaching an embarrassing "collector" status.

I need to get to the root of the problem! :mrgreen:

(That taxi's taking its time!)

Jim

You can never have enough squares...I've got six that I use on a fairly regular basis. Does that make me a 'collector' though? :mrgreen: 8-[ - Rob