Woods to avoid for wooden goblets?

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Dino

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I'm sure there are a lot of threads on this but I prefer being safe so I'll risk the wrath of the people on the forum as not poisoning my family is a little more important to me.

I'm planning on using a combination of american black walnut, beech, lime (basswood), mahogany, cherry and black cabbage bark.

Are there any of these that I should avoid because they are toxic / porous?

Thanks, and sorry if I'm repeating a question already asked.
 
You should be safe with all of those. Porosity is going to be something to counter whatever the wood and so using a good coating of liquid proofing is needed. I have used melamine for goblets in the past but now use plasticote which is also alchohol resistant.

Pete
 
Beech or ash should be fine. And although I've no evidence/documentation to back it up, I can't imagine that any residual toxicity from wood could leech through a suitably thick finish like melamine or plastic coating.

Wouldn't use yew or laburnum though...

Adam
 
I make a lot of goblets, all for use and the three that I avoid are as said yew and laburnum and also iroko. There is a lot of debate whether any of them actually do have enough toxin in them to worry about but my own view is that it isn't worth the risk. With regards to anything leaching through, I used to use melamine as I said but someone who had a goblet from me (fortunately a friend) left it overnight with red wine in it and it ate through 5 coats of melamine and stained toe wood by the following morning. Most fruit woods, beech and sycamore are all OK. Oak has tannin so not ideal. When coating the goblets do the inside and outside of the owl section as it is all in contact with the mouth so better safe than sorry. As I said, I now use Rustins plasticoat which is stated as being resistant to alcohol.

Pete
 
If you are putting so many coats of whatever on to seal the wood,does it matter what woods you use if the wood is sealed so much??
 
Paul.J":2rhhw3me said:
If you are putting so many coats of whatever on to seal the wood,does it matter what woods you use if the wood is sealed so much??
Probably not.
But as Bodrighy said, with so many woods available what is the point in taking the risk ?
 
Paul.J":10vryu1y said:
If you are putting so many coats of whatever on to seal the wood,does it matter what woods you use if the wood is sealed so much??

If you are making anything for use with food, drink etc then it is not good to use any wood or finish that can be potentially hazardous. In my case as I am selling the things I make I have to ensure that anything I make is safe and so I m going to err on the side of caution. Any finish can wear or chip and so the wood used is exposed. There are so many woods that are safe is it worth the risk?

Pete
 
When you apply your finishes do you apply them over the entire goblet or just the inside and the parts the lip will be in contact with?

If it is just the inside and lip, how do you finish the rest of the goblet?

Thanks again. Very informative so far.
 
Paul.J":ve74l5ip said:
If you are putting so many coats of whatever on to seal the wood,does it matter what woods you use if the wood is sealed so much??

I think for things like this you have to imagine what might happen if a toddler accidentally got hold of it and started chewing rather than the literal danger of the adult drinker. There was a recent case of a toddler drinking bleach it had accessed from a kitchen under sink cupboard wasn't there. Makes you shudder to think.
 
I now coat the whole of the goblet with the water / alchohol proof finish. Experience has taught me that if I skimp and just do the inside someone will spill red wine on the polished area outside and red wine is an amazing dye.

Pete
 
I have not used these products yet. I can see why you have to do so but do they afffect the 'feel' of the wood ?
 
Here is the text of an article that was written by chemists at Kew. I have long been doubtful of the rumours that have been exagerated by Woodturners and the apparent fear that it has generated as to the toxicity of woods, particularly Yew and Laburnum. There have been no deaths recorded as a result of laburnum seed consumption since the NHS started keeping records (NHS Fact not speculation!). However, on the issue of Yew as can be seen from the article below, was immersed (presumably untreated and we assume probably green?) and a taxine detected (but the toxicity of that taxine was not resolved) so perhaps we should exercise caution! However as I too sell goods in Yew, I did a quick survey and found that all my customers were still living!

Anyway, flippancy aside, here's the article:

Taxus baccata (European yew) is a well known poisonous plant. Eating a relatively small quantity of leaves can be fatal for livestock and humans. The toxicity of yew leaves is due to the presence of alkaloids known as taxines, of which taxine B is suspected as being one of the most poisonous. Taxines are also known to be present in the bark and seeds of yew, but are absent from the fleshy red arils.

The occurrence of taxines in leaves, seeds and bark of yew is often summarised in books and on the internet as ‘all parts’ of yew are poisonous, except for the arils. This has created confusion about whether the wood of yew is also hazardous.

Those searching for evidence of yew wood toxicity will no doubt find reference to the observations of the Roman naturalist and philosopher Pliny the Elder who, in his Natural History (AD 77-79), noted that ‘even wine flasks for travellers made of its wood in Gaul are known to have caused death.’ In the modern scientific literature, however, evidence for yew wood causing health problems is limited to a few cases of irritation or dermatitis.

Yew wood goblet Goblet made from yew wood from Kew’s Economic Botany Collection (Image: G. Kite)
When chemists at Kew examined the scientific literature on yew wood chemistry, they found that reports on taxines, particularly taxine B, in heartwood of yew were also ambiguous. Statements were not supported by reference to original research demonstrating the presence of taxines, although some general and non-specific tests for alkaloids had been performed.

At Kew, a sensitive method for detecting taxine B had previously been developed to assist with livestock poisoning enquiries. The method involved making an extract of the test material in methanol and analysing this by liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry (LC-MS), a technique that is able to detect trace amounts of a specific compound in a chemically complex solution. When the Kew chemists applied the method to yew heartwood, they were unable to detect taxine B.

Numerous taxine alkaloids in addition to taxine B have been reported in the leaves of yew, and the main taxine in the bark is different to that in the leaves. Sill more taxines have been found in other species of Taxus. Thus, to broaden the search for taxines, the Kew chemists devised a LC-MS method to detect taxine alkaloids generally, not just taxine B.

The method was published recently in the Journal of Chromatography B and compliments the taxine B-specific method when investigating livestock poisoning incidents. When the new method was applied to yew heartwood it revealed an array of taxine alkaloids (including the major alkaloid in the bark), although the concentration of alkaloids was low compared to the leaves or bark.

The toxicity of the taxine alkaloids detected in yew heartwood is not known. However, as the Kew chemists readily detected taxine contamination in wine into which yew wood had been placed, it would seem sensible to caution against testing Pliny’s observation and not drink wine from a yew wood utensil.
 
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