Wood as energy leads to timber price increase?

[Wouldchuk]

Interesting article discussing short-sighted energy policy leading to an increase in wood as energy source, with a potential impact on timber prices:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15756074

Not sure if this will really ever translate to the humble DIY er but an interesting discussion.

Mods: move to general chat if felt necessary, just a discussion topic!

 

[Jacob]

Bound to increase prices yes. Not necessarily short sighted - shouldn't lead to de-forestation if managed sustainably i.e. replanted - which then makes it carbon neutral. Carbon negative even - if more is planted than consumed.
One way or another we have no choice but to stop using fossil fuels and replace them with sustainable alternatives

 

[Bodgers]

Article is from 2012 and the data is from the FC, which looks to deal with coniferous trees. Doesn't look to have gone up dramatically much since then...do they burn coniferous trees as biomass at power stations?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

The whole energy supply and energy security situation is now so horrifically complex and confused, there will be all sorts of weird unintended consequences.

I suspect there isn't really a direct link between woodlands being managed for timber production and woodlands being managed for biomass, except that there is now another market for timber production waste and thinnings. Anybody with commercial woodland will look for the best return on investment. I suppose whilst biomass attracts a subsidy, that probably makes it more commercially attractive, so less woodland managed for timber. However, subsidies can be withdrawn as quickly as they're put in place, and woodland management is a very long-term business. All in all, it's anybody's guess long term.

 

[Dusty]

The sawmill I buy my douglas fir from for cladding etc has explained to me how in the last 18 months he has seen the price go up . He buys it is by the lorry load and machines to order . He explained that nearby , there is a large bio mass fuel powerstation and it takes over 100 lorries a day . Most of which is sourced from the area he buys his lumber from . He explained that his sellin price has gone up £1 per cubic foot after his costs etc . This may not seem alot but multiply that my a tree and it is significant .

The sad thing is that complete tree is mulched into biomass and all for the purpose of subsidised fuel . The common sense thing would be to harvest the main trunk for timber and mulch the top end which is not wanted , but as usual the economics of it make it so wasteful .

Personaly I am not in favour of mass subsidisation of fuel as there is a farm only a stones throw from me , which the owner has happily bragged about the money gets , massively subsidised plant costs , subsidised lorrys of fuel and then he gets a further thirty grand a year . The irony is that some of the heat produced is then used to dry the next batch of fuel ! Bit of a self fullfilling prophecy .

Anyway , yes it has a big enough impact on the price of lumber localy grown and will continue to do so , the chap at the sawmill, who owns it , has run the sawmill since he took over from his father , and has noticed the difference in supply and demand and he said , basing on his experience that in the next 10 to 25 years it will deplete the native grown softwoods as it can not be grown quick enough . Other sources of fuel are available as on the Mendips they tried to get permission and grown elephant grass for the same purpose but their plans were scuppered , they had already planted , near a spot called charterhouse and it is a very invasive non native species .

In my book it is a great looking fairy tale and it great on paper and in the short term but totaly unsustainable in the long term , imagine hauling bulk carriers of fuel around the world to feed our needs , it wouldnt be cost efficient . And what happens when the subsidies finish to the end user , I cant see the said farmer above carrying on with it and personally I dont see why the tax payer should fund private business's with cheap fuel and cash incentives .

Anyway , off my soap box ,

cheers sam

 

[Jacob]

Ideally there would be a lot of new planting close to where needed. This is how it was in the past before coal was big - where there was demand (ships and the early iron industry smelting) there were forests being managed. Oak was planted for use 100 years later (particularly by the navy) - a lot of forethought going on. No demand (Ireland) and the forests were cleared.

 

[No skills]

Would be interesting to see what sort of monoculture forests we would end up with - farms have fields of sheep/cows/pigs cos their tasty and useful, what trees would we manage for energy? Pine and oak?
Maybe this is the downfall of oak furniture land waiting to happen

 

[Dusty]

Would be interesting to see what sort of monoculture forests we would end up with - farms have fields of sheep/cows/pigs cos their tasty and useful, what trees would we manage for energy? Pine and oak?
Maybe this is the downfall of oak furniture land waiting to happen

coniferandleighlandi-furnitureland

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I don't think wood is economic for fuel use in electric power generation without subsidies, and there is increasing disquiet about the environmental effects of using wood in this way. Whilst nominally CO2 neutral there are large losses in felling, drying, transporting and pelletising the fuel. Wood pellets have approx 25% of the calorific value of crude oil, and are significantly less dense.

The UK has so little natural wood resource that the Drax power station (converting from coal) imports 80% of its fuel from N America. One organisation which is a large energy user did a feasibility on biomass generation. I recall (a slightly hazy recollection) that to make it work they would need to commandeer all biomass output from a range of 50 miles, and required facilities to handle several large truck a day for delivery.

Hopefully the subsidies will be removed and wood can be put to better use - it would be quite absurd if due to energy subsidies we actually had to use plastics, composites and steel for those tasks already delivered effectively by timber!!