Which grade of Diamond plate for final honing

[JustBen]

????
He just demonstrated that it works fine.

And even if there was a difference, if an old man can't feel the difference (someone who is more likely feel it with ageing bones and muscles), is the extra time/cost worth worrying about?

Hello,

Paul Daniels' Bunco Booth springs to mind; he demonstrated that bashing a wristwatch with a hammer had no ill effect on the watch, or the Queen was never where it was last hidden!

Seriously, if the only effect a sharp tool has is one that is marginally easier to push, then you are looking in the wrong place.

Mike.

Ok then.

 

[edsof754]

I think Mr sellers is just proving a point as someone who is not dependant on the sponsorship of plane makers etc

 

[Corneel]

Wait a second. I agree that the test from mr Sellers was flawed. He only tested on easy pine. But JustBen just reports how he got similar results on oak and beech including ENDGRAIN! That's a pretty tough test. This merrits further investigation. Especally because an India stone was the standard for a long time and an Black arkansas was ment for surgical instruments.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

By far your easiest and less costly introduction to the whole .x-micron superfine media love-fest will be high grit sandpapers or lapping films on glass.

This is obviously a more involved operation than I had anticipated. Perhaps a lot of it is a labour of love and a fascination of sharpening method.

I think until I am a tad more experienced in this art the simplest method may actually just be very fine W&D paper. Seems I need to pop into Halfords for a box of W&D.

Fascinating reading though.

David

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Go to a motor factor or steel merchants for your wet and dry - you'll probably get better quality paper for less money.

 

[MIGNAL]

Ultimately though Wet and Dry proves to be a little more costly. Oil stones last a lifetime or two. Even my 8,000 G waterstone is 15 years and probably has another 10 if I take it right down to the last 5 mm's. Not sure how long a Diamond plate lasts. My cheap one is only a few months old.
As for sharpening. You will get good results finishing with a medium stone. Good, good enough but not spectacular. It's probably good enough for 90% + of the work needed. But I also work some difficult woods. Some joints have to be supremely precise, such that I'm almost taking a mere scraping when paring with a chisel. You can only really do that with fiendishly sharp tools. To put it another way, I hone a scalpel that is fresh out of the packet.

 

[bugbear]

Ultimately though Wet and Dry proves to be a little more costly. Oil stones last a lifetime or two. Even my 8,000 G waterstone is 15 years and probably has another 10 if I take it right down to the last 5 mm's. Not sure how long a Diamond plate lasts. My cheap one is only a few months old.
As for sharpening. You will get good results finishing with a medium stone. Good, good enough but not spectacular. It's probably good enough for 90% + of the work needed. But I also work some difficult woods. Some joints have to be supremely precise, such that I'm almost taking a mere scraping when paring with a chisel. You can only really do that with fiendishly sharp tools. To put it another way, I hone a scalpel that is fresh out of the packet.

Charles was careful to say that SiC is a good introduction...

BugBear

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Go to a motor factor or steel merchants for your wet and dry - you'll probably get better quality paper for less money.

Phil - when you say motor factor, can you clarify, do you mean a dealership?

 

[marcros]

no, motor parts supplier. http://www.yell.com/s/motor+factors-huntingdon.html

or online of course.

 

[Trafalgar]

By far your easiest and less costly introduction to the whole .x-micron superfine media love-fest will be high grit sandpapers or lapping films on glass.

This is obviously a more involved operation than I had anticipated. Perhaps a lot of it is a labour of love and a fascination of sharpening method.

I think until I am a tad more experienced in this art the simplest method may actually just be very fine W&D paper. Seems I need to pop into Halfords for a box of W&D.

Fascinating reading though.

David

Yes, the fine autobody papers, used for rubbing out automotive clear coat, will work extremely well. The last time I was in Autozone (U.S.) I'm fairly sure that I saw 3,000 grit sandpaper. I know they have 2,500 grit and this will put an extraordinary mirror finish on tool steel.

Here we go, 3M 3,000 grit sandpaper:

http://www.amazon.com/3M-03064-Trizact- ... B005RNGL9O

The assortment pack I used to buy:

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Wetordry-Sandp ... B005JPGTNI

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Thanks Fellahs, for the relatively low cost of the paper I'll pop in a buy a few sheets to see how it works out.

Many thanks.

David

 

[marcros]

Thanks Fellahs, for the relatively low cost of the paper I'll pop in a buy a few sheets to see how it works out.

Many thanks.

David

One thing to add is to buy branded sandpaper, or buy a few sheets of the cheap to try out before buying in bulk. The super cheap stuff IME isnt worth bothering with.

 

[JustBen]

I bought some Klingspor paper a while back. It's pretty good stuff and only pence per sheet.

http://www.thepolishingshop.co.uk/acata ... discs.html

 

[rafezetter]

By far your easiest and less costly introduction to the whole .x-micron superfine media love-fest will be high grit sandpapers or lapping films on glass.

@CStanford - I'll see your 3m 3000 paper and raise you; GLAR 5000

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370964116399?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I've found various assorted 2000 - 5000 packs as above excellent wet n dry papers and for just a few quid getting about 5 strips from each one to use, I consider that bargain value hard to beat for an occasional hand planer like myself to get crazy sharp for less than beer money. As I've said elsewhere I do a final hone polish on heavyweight printer paper which gives me an ultra mirror shine, similar to the using cardboard on a strop technique.

They cut progressively slower with use than lapping films, as films wear away like a stone revealing fresh abrasive media instead of wearing down a fixed one, but you'll only be doing a few passes on the ones 2k > 5k anyway so they are a good cheap alternative and I've found make things much easier even if it is technically going well over a "working sharp" benchmark. (but definitely helps when hitting pine knots.) *glide*.

The plus side to going finer than 1k is that you'll wear your plane blade slower too as these high grits for touch ups barely remove any metal at all, making your micro bevel last that much longer before having to regrind a primary, making that purchase of a fancy, but moderately expensive, "new forged 01" / "old vintage good steel" blade that much more sensible.

(blimey lol I actually sound like I know what I'm espousing - all that's thanks to you guys.. go me )

 

[fluffflinger]

I started with wet and dry from an Motor Factors and had more than acceptable results wworking down to 1500 grit on an old granite tile.

Like many of us I have used all sorts of sharpening methods and am still experimenting/messy about (because it's fun, not because I am fanatical).

Best results by far are lapping film on glass, I have no idea what grit 0.5micron lapping film equates to but all I know is I can get an amazingly good edge with this stuff and it's a few stokes to renew the edge. Autosol on MDF also get's my vote.

 

[J_SAMa]

The fine side of Paul's old Norton stone was 400 grit. Why does he now sharpen with 3 diamond stones and a strop?

David Charlesworth

I made a point in another thread that the Fine India may actually be a lot finer than 400 grits. I think the stone gets clogged and that somehow makes it finer... Still have to test this theory by declogging the stone with white spirit and using it.
woodworker-1950-t80381-60.html
^Half mirror shine... The cutting speed is a little slower than a 1000 grit waterstone. After the Fine India, few dozen strokes on the strop with green compound and the tip becomes fully mirror polished (not the whole bevel, just the first couple of mm).

I started with the dreaded fine/coarse India stone. Arkansas stones were significantly better and When Japanese waterstones arrived here they were a revalation, being significantly better again.

David Charlesworth

Well, it's probably just me and my stones but whenever I try to flatten a chisel back on my 1000 or 3000 grit Cerax the stone becomes "sticky" and it's difficult to move the blade along it. I like diamond stones and oilstones for their better "feel". Also not having to worry about moisture causing rust on a blade is a bonus.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You try to flatten a chisel on 1000 grit? Surely it should be flat long before that?

 

[bugbear]

I made a point in another thread that the Fine India may actually be a lot finer than 400 grits. I think the stone gets clogged and that somehow makes it finer... Still have to test this theory by declogging the stone with white spirit and using it.

Just to clarify (and be a pedant) it's not finer than 400 - it's slower than 400. Clogging or loading
(obviously..) could not change the actual particle size.

This demonstrates once again that while grit size is the most important
factor for an abrasive, it's a long way from being the only factor.

BugBear

 

[J_SAMa]

You try to flatten a chisel on 1000 grit? Surely it should be flat long before that?

I take backs of new chisels from 250 grit all the way up to mirror polish (or at least no visible scratches), going through each and every grit to remove the scratch marks from the last one (I guess I shouldn't call this process "flattening"). Used to do it on waterstones until I discovered India. It would get quite irritating with narrow firmer or mortise chisels as they tended to roll and the stickiness of the waterstones didn't help. Up until recently I had been in the process of slowly acquiring the tools I need so had to do that a lot.
----------------------------------------------
Bugbear,
Yes I realize it's physically impossible to change the grit size. But the surface I get from a clogged stone is much finer so... Well anyway, it works and I'm happy

 

[Trafalgar]

By far your easiest and less costly introduction to the whole .x-micron superfine media love-fest will be high grit sandpapers or lapping films on glass.

@CStanford - I'll see your 3m 3000 paper and raise you; GLAR 5000

We can always move to optical polishing compounds (you see, this stuff never ends really):

http://www.harricksci.com/ftir/accessor ... ishing-Kit

Then there is 'Monkey Jam' Pinewood Derby axle polish with a particle grit size of LESS THAN .05 microns (.05!):

http://www.derbymonkeygarage.com/axle-t ... Ogod30YArg

Note that green compound is around .5 micron, not .05 as is the Monkey Jam. See: http://www.japanwoodworker.com/Product/ ... OgodeRoA3A

And then there are the lapidary polishes too fine and numerous to mention.

I mean, why not? If we should move from a Black Arky to a waterstone then why stop at a waterstone? And I'm sure there are other industrial and aerospace polishes even finer than those above. It becomes arbitrary, almost, one's stopping point. The edges got sharp at the India/Black Ark/Strop stage, at some point it's just a psychological exercise of feeling as if one isn't leaving one mote on the table. An obsession. And a ridiculous one at that.