Which Fuse ?

[Fergie 307]

A good point well made. Back in the day when the fuse in the device was your first line of defence, making sure it was the correct size was undoubtedly important. Anyone nowadays running tools, or indeed anything else, without a RCD is a fool.

 

[nickds1]

A good point well made. Back in the day when the fuse in the device was your first line of defence, making sure it was the correct size was undoubtedly important. Anyone nowadays running tools, or indeed anything else, without a RCD is a fool.

Worth remembering that an RCD is a leakage/fault detector, not overcurrent. You still need fuses/MCBs etc.

 

[Bungalowbill63]

I hope nobody takes notice of the idea that replacing a 3amp fuse with a 13 amp is good practice.
This machine has a pcb which probably would be destroyed as a result of the higher rated fuse,not to mention the fire risk from an overloaded cable.
I would suggest that if fitting the correct fuse and there is still a fault seek qualified advice from Pegas, Axminster or Seyco.

 

[scrimper]

I hope nobody takes notice of the idea that replacing a 3amp fuse with a 13 amp is good practice.
This machine has a pcb which probably would be destroyed as a result of the higher rated fuse,not to mention the fire risk from an overloaded cable.

I shall only say that as a fully qualified electrical engineer I disagree with this comment, However as I don't wish to enter into another argumentative discussion with you I shall not respond further.

 

[Spectric]

I hope nobody takes notice of the idea that replacing a 3amp fuse with a 13 amp is good practice.

Changing the rating or type of protective device is a change of the design and therefore should only be done following investigation and testing to ensure that the circuit can withstand the higher fault current and energy let through, ie no permeant damage due to the fault current. So in this context the above statement is correct but

This machine has a pcb which probably would be destroyed as a result of the higher rated fuse,not to mention the fire risk from an overloaded cable.

This cannot be assumed because often the OEM will use a protective device on the PCB, this then leaves the fuse in the plug to protect the cable from short circuit conditions. Fuses do not protect against overload fault conditions, that is why motors use overload devices to protect the system, just look at a DOL starter and again this protection is often part of the PCB or starter circuit.

 

[cjdinc]

Hi there,
I'm using a Pegas 16" Scroll Saw:
Power input 320 W, power output 60 W, 230 V, 400-1550

Had been using it for about an hour yesterday and stopped work until this morning.
I switched it on and....................nothing !

Oh my goodness ! How am I going to finish this project ???
Oh NO ! I'll have to ship it back to Switzerand where I purchased it !
What am I going to do ??

After I finshed my whining, I removed the 3 amp fuse and replaced it with another and.........................
Hallelujah ! It works ! What a relief.
Now, my question is, since this shipped with a European plug and I used a fused adapter with a 3 amp fuse, should I replace it with that, or do I need a larger amp one?
I apologise for my lack of electrical knowledge.
Thanks in advance for any replies.

Hi Gogsi,
I'm interested in buying a Pegas scroll saw from Dictum and would be interested in your experience of dealing direct with them? Was it straight forward or did you get involved with customs and excise?

 

[AES]

I dealt with Dictum, though it's nigh on 6 years ago now, and I visited them in München (I'm somewhat nearer to them than you are cjdinc)!

I did have to deal with Customs and Import Duties, because even though it's a while back, I live in Switzerland, and Switzerland was never in the EU, just like UK isn't now. About the only difference is that I picked up my machine in München and brought it home by car.

So my experience is most probably the same as/similar to Gogsi's. I did write the whole experience up on here, so after looking that post up I'll come back here and attach the relevant link.

Edit for added link:

Biting the bullet - Ex 21

Well Ladies & Gents, AES finally “bit the bullet”! It was my birthday a few weeks back (the big seven oh! - but apart from my back problems I can hardly believe it). My lovely Lady agreed with my request that as part of the celebrations we visit Munich which is less than 4 hours drive for us...

www.ukworkshop.co.uk

There's a fair bit on UKW about that time on this general subject both from me and others, so it may be worth your while having a "paddle about" in UKW at about that time - I see it was 2015 - to find other relevant stuff. BTW, I still deal with Dictum on a fairly regular basis for stuff like Pegas scroll saw blades (would you believe that Dictum are cheaper than my local Swiss Pegas dealer - and Pegas blades are made here in Switzerland)!

As you'll read in the above link, I have no hesitation in recommending Dictum as one of the best tool shops I've ever dealt with.

HTH

 

[cjdinc]

I dealt with Dictum, though it's nigh on 6 years ago now, and I visited them in München (I'm somewhat nearer to them than you are cjdinc)!

I did have to deal with Customs and Import Duties, because even though it's a while back, I live in Switzerland, and Switzerland was never in the EU, just like UK isn't now. About the only difference is that I picked up my machine in München and brought it home by car.

So my experience is most probably the same as/similar to Gogsi's. I did write the whole experience up on here, so after looking that post up I'll come back here and attach the relevant link.

Edit for added link:

Biting the bullet - Ex 21

Well Ladies & Gents, AES finally “bit the bullet”! It was my birthday a few weeks back (the big seven oh! - but apart from my back problems I can hardly believe it). My lovely Lady agreed with my request that as part of the celebrations we visit Munich which is less than 4 hours drive for us...

www.ukworkshop.co.uk

There's a fair bit on UKW about that time on this general subject both from me and others, so it may be worth your while having a "paddle about" in UKW at about that time - I see it was 2015 - to find other relevant stuff. BTW, I still deal with Dictum on a fairly regular basis for stuff like Pegas scroll saw blades (would you believe that Dictum are cheaper than my local Swiss Pegas dealer - and Pegas blades are made here in Switzerland)!

As you'll read in the above link, I have no hesitation in recommending Dictum as one of the best tool shops I've ever dealt with.

HTH

Thanks AES,
I did find your thread and read it a while ago. I was really looking for Gogsi's input of how he went about getting Dictum to send him a Pegas machine here in the UK last year.
Thanks for your input though, much appreciated.
Cjdinc

 

[Gogsi]

Hi Cjdinc
Actually, I didn't buy mine from Dictum, I bought it from Scies Miniatures Sarl in Switzerland and, to be honest, they were terrible. I think I was maybe the first private individual they had dealt with and it was a very painful 2 months.
I think I'd likely have been better to go with Dictum.
They shipped it from France and only when it arrived at the port did they realise they had incorrect papers and had to send it back to the point of departure. Communication was very slow and not very informative........definitely one of my worst buying experiences.

 

[AES]

Thanks AES,
I did find your thread and read it a while ago. I was really looking for Gogsi's input of how he went about getting Dictum to send him a Pegas machine here in the UK last year.
Thanks for your input though, much appreciated.
Cjdinc

OK mate, no problem. Best of luck anyway - one thing's for sure, arranging transport isn't going to be cheap I think, but based on my own experiences with them, Dictum will help you as much as they possibly can

 

[AES]

@cjdinc: I'll jump back in again quickly then.

1. I'm surprised Scies (the makers of Pegas blades) dealt with Gogsi at all. I've tried several times and they've always refused retail customers apparently. And perhaps I shouldn't say this, but coming from the French part of Switzerland, I'm not surprised they weren't very good (the Frogs generally aren't as efficient as the Krauts - he says, ducking like mad)!

2. If you want to contact Dictum direct and haven't got all the details, here they are:

Tel: (orders) +49 9931 4058 901

Tel: (tech help/info) + 49 9931 4058 911

(above lines open from 08.00 to 20.00 - note, they're +1 hour on UK time)

Post: Dictum GmbH, Gottlieb-Daimler Strasse 3, D-94447 Plattling, Deutschland

Fax (order) +49 9931 4058 800

E-mail: [email protected]

Website: www.dictum.com

And their English is pretty good BTW.

All the best - In their 2018 catalogue (the latest I have) the 16 inch Pegas/Excalibur is priced at 609 Euros, no taxes; the 21 inch at 722 Euros, no taxes; The Hegner Mutispeed Multicut 1 is 685 Euros, no taxes, and the Multicut SE is 894 Euros, no taxes..

I'm not sure what the post Brexit rules are in UK now, but should (???) be the same as here (also not in the EU). That means that Dictum should charge prices ex VAT, as above. You pay UK VAT when the saw arrives in UK. But you also have to pay the shipping, plus UK Import Duty, and VAT is, of course, added on to the total of all these. That's how it works here anyway.

H all TH

 

[pgrbff]

@Gogsi: I agree with scrimper about fitting a UK plug, but NOT with fitting a 13 A fuse, sorry. The Manual for my EX 21 (which is the the same rating as your EX 16) states a 3A fuse should be used (see page 6 of the Manual).

FWIW, not all "euro plugs" are the same ("my" Swiss plugs - which I guess could be called "euro plugs", at least geographically speaking! - are not at all compatible with German "euro plugs" for example). So I do exactly the same thing, and cut off the supplied plug/adaptor thingies, whatever type they are, even if moulded on, and refit "correct" Swiss ones. But Swiss plugs are, unlike UK plugs, are NOT fused at all.

I have never had a fuse blow (which in my case would mean blowing the fuse in power distribution box supplying the cellar where my machine is plugged in), but just "to be sure" in your case, I'd fit a 3 A fuse as per the Manual if I were you.

Back yonks ago when I was a UK resident it was possible to get 3 A cartridge fuses to fit UK plugs (don't know if you still can) but IMO only, it would be worth a bit of effort (and the few pence involved) to replace that 13 A fuse with the "correct" (as per Manual) 3 A fuse if you can find one.

HTH

Edit for P.S: Also the Manual goes to some lengths to talk about always making sure the machine is properly earthed. That's the main reason why I always cut all "non Swiss" plugs/adaptors off all my machine leads. Having wired the plug myself I'm always sure that the machine IS properly earthed.

Is there not a danger that changing the plug will affect the warranty?
I'm in Italy and I am so fed up with the number of adapters you need. 10A flat, 16A flat, shuko (German), Although you can buy plugs here even the better quality like Vimar, Gewiss and BTicino fall apart in no time. Sometimes you need 3 different screwdrivers to change a plug.

 

[pgrbff]

@cjdinc: I'll jump back in again quickly then.

1. I'm surprised Scies (the makers of Pegas blades) dealt with Gogsi at all. I've tried several times and they've always refused retail customers apparently. And perhaps I shouldn't say this, but coming from the French part of Switzerland, I'm not surprised they weren't very good (the Frogs generally aren't as efficient as the Krauts - he says, ducking like mad)!

2. If you want to contact Dictum direct and haven't got all the details, here they are:

Tel: (orders) +49 9931 4058 901

Tel: (tech help/info) + 49 9931 4058 911

(above lines open from 08.00 to 20.00 - note, they're +1 hour on UK time)

Post: Dictum GmbH, Gottlieb-Daimler Strasse 3, D-94447 Plattling, Deutschland

Fax (order) +49 9931 4058 800

E-mail: [email protected]

Website: www.dictum.com

And their English is pretty good BTW.

All the best - In their 2018 catalogue (the latest I have) the 16 inch Pegas/Excalibur is priced at 609 Euros, no taxes; the 21 inch at 722 Euros, no taxes; The Hegner Mutispeed Multicut 1 is 685 Euros, no taxes, and the Multicut SE is 894 Euros, no taxes..

I'm not sure what the post Brexit rules are in UK now, but should (???) be the same as here (also not in the EU). That means that Dictum should charge prices ex VAT, as above. You pay UK VAT when the saw arrives in UK. But you also have to pay the shipping, plus UK Import Duty, and VAT is, of course, added on to the total of all these. That's how it works here anyway.

H all TH

I too buy regularly from Dictum and have never had any issues.

 

[cjdinc]

Thanks to everyone for replying. My only contact so far with Dictum has been pretty negative. I asked if they could quote me a delivered price and they replied saying they could not supply private customers in the UK only companies who can provide an EORI number? This is at odds with HM Gov website which says private customers do not require an EORI number. I haven't been back to Dictum yet.
Thanks once again.

 

[pgrbff]

Thanks to everyone for replying. My only contact so far with Dictum has been pretty negative. I asked if they could quote me a delivered price and they replied saying they could not supply private customers in the UK only companies who can provide an EORI number? This is at odds with HM Gov website which says private customers do not require an EORI number. I haven't been back to Dictum yet.
Thanks once again.

It may depend on the value of the goods? I don't think getting an EORI should be a big deal, although I don't know how you would go about it in the UK. It is relatively simple here, you just stick IT in front of your personal tax code which can be calculated online in 20 seconds.
There is still a huge amount of confusion on shipping to and from the UK from the EU. I send myself parcels, from the UK to Italy, with few problems if I choose the right courier. Parcelforce on the other hand still have a parcel sent for Christmas on the 25th of November.

 

[Henniep]

Well I have opened up a 'Hornets nest' here. I do speak with some experience here having spent all my working life in the Radio/TV/electrical repair business and running my own Electrical company for the last 30 odd years of my working life.

In actual fact the standard UK plug fuse is available in the following ratings 1A, 2A, 3A 5A, 7A, 10A and 13a and I do actually have all of these sizes in my stock. however the only official and commonly used ones are 3A and 13A.

Now as mentioned devices with motors do have a momentary starting current that is sometimes up to 5 times that of running current and in this sort of equipment you may find that a lower rated fuse may run fine but on the other hand may eventually blow.

There is talk in this thread of using 6" nails and silver paper being used rather than fuses which although over the years I have seen many of these dangerous practices in use my suggestion of using a 13A fuse has nothing to do with them obviously.

When I fit plugs and fuses I would always advocate using either a 3A or a 13A fuse as these are the only ones most people have access too and for low wattage items like for example a table lamp obviously one should fit a 3A fuse however with a motorised item generally I would advise a 13A fuse is fiited. As I mentioned in any safety issue a 13A fuse would blow almost as quickly as a smaller rated one.

In any dangerous short to earth in a machine that could result in electric shock it would be the RCD, or residual current device that would save your life not the use of a 3A fuse.

As regards to manufacturers stating the correct fuse to use, in fairness many of today's manufacturers do not actually make anything they simply buy Chinese made products and stick their logo on them, often run by venture capitalists they often know little about the products they sell and even less about proper electrical practices. You only have to look at the poor quality of some of the stuff they sell to understand this.

This post may be out of kilter with everyone else here and make me unpopular but I have to state my honest opinion.

Tell em Scrimper, tell em!

 

[Spectric]

Can you not buy a scroll saw here in the UK, saves so many problems and you have the opportunity of actually seeing it or is this Peegas one special in some way?

 

[AES]

Is there not a danger that changing the plug will affect the warranty?
I'm in Italy and I am so fed up with the number of adapters you need. 10A flat, 16A flat, shuko (German), Although you can buy plugs here even the better quality like Vimar, Gewiss and BTicino fall apart in no time. Sometimes you need 3 different screwdrivers to change a plug.

I can't see why changing a plug (on the mains cable) will void any Warranty. I suppose IF you had a problem and the dealer could show you'd wired up your own plug incorrectly they would have a valid case for refusing a warranty claim, but if you can wire your own country's plugs correctly, and can use a pair of side cutters (see below), I really don't see a problem.

And frankly I just don't understand the need for all these adaptors either (unless you regularly use the same machine in 2 or more different countries with different mains sockets). All I do is just cut off the mains plug up as near along the cable to the plug as possible (even moulded on plugs) then chuck that in the bin and fit a "proper" plug for my own country. I do have a couple of machines that I sometimes take to use at a friend's house in Germany (different plugs to Swiss) so I own just one German/Swiss adaptor. That's it.

 

[AES]

Can you not buy a scroll saw here in the UK, saves so many problems and you have the opportunity of actually seeing it or is this Peegas one special in some way?

Spectric, IMO (and that of several other members here), YES, the Pegas/Excalibur saws are indeed pretty special - in several important ways.

Until about a couple of years back, you could buy those exact machines from Axmister Tools (they were/are the UK dealers for Pegas/Excalibur/General International). But as said, about 2 years ago, maybe more now, I forget, Axi brought out their own version of the Excaliburs, which apart from the colour and the name, appeared to be identical with the "originals".

But based on the number of complaints, breakage, and outright warranty replacements which have been reported here on UKW, those Axi clones are NOT the same internally. So it appears that if you live in UK (I don't) and want to buy the Pegas/Excalibur originals then you have to import from a different country.

The only real alternative (new machines) of the same quality is the Hegner range of scroll saws which are sold in UK (Hegner themselves have their own "office" in UK). But machine for machine, the Hegners are more expensive than the equivalent Pegas/Excaliburs, and some would argue (me included) that you get more bang for your buck when buying Pegas/Excalibur.

 

[Spectric]

Thanks for that info @AES and I can understand the quality issues if Axminster are having cost reduced clones made in Asia. It is good to know that if I need a scroll saw then look at Pegas or Hegner.

I can't see why changing a plug (on the mains cable) will void any Warranty.

It is more of a get out clause, if the plug is moulded on the cable and you cut it off to change then they say you have tampered or interferred with the item. It can be a problem when doing a kitchen because the plug does not fit through a small hole, you cannot cut it off and wire to a FCU but end up fitting a socket beneath the worktop with a switch above.