johnf
Established Member
The Wood Butcher":1vg0lu4x said:
An excellent idea well worth considering
What should I put in my Workshop
- Thread starter JohnPeel
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
An excellent idea well worth considering
Guggs
Established Member
If you have that sort of money to spend , them for god sake dont waste your money on flashy ,plastic rubbish . If you do your wasting good money . Go and spend time looking at quality used British made machines . They are bomb proof ,relaible , no plastic to break , no flashy gimmicks ,cheap and above all the quality of the finished item is far superior . Not only that you'll have money left over for tooling !
Guggs
Established Member
The Wood Butcher":2pfmbel0 said:
Dont waste your money on them . Poor quality , expensive and terrible quality of finish .
Guggs,
so you had a bad experience with Felder,doesnt mean that all their products are rubbish,I have a workshop full of them and I'm happy.
About time that you gave it a rest with the slating. :mrgreen:
so you had a bad experience with Felder,doesnt mean that all their products are rubbish,I have a workshop full of them and I'm happy.
About time that you gave it a rest with the slating. :mrgreen:
Aled Dafis
Established Member
Here's a basic list to get you started.
Table saw - 10"min. Ideally 12"
Planer thickneser -10"-12"
Bandsaw - Bigger the better
The above should be SOLID and have cast iron tables - look at Rojek, Sedgwick, Robland, Startrite etc.
Morticer (or Festool Domino/Domino XL for bigger projects)
Router table and big router
Spindle moulder (the router table would be sufficient, but spindle moulder would be good for bigger work)
Router(s) and cutters - buy good quality as needed, Wealden are good.
Chop saw - again the bigger the better - I have a Makita 12" and wouldn't be without it.
Dust extraction!!
Bench (could make your own)
Hand planes (#4 1/2 and a #7 for starters... Clifton, Lie Nielsen, Veritas)
Couple of hand saws - Japanese?
Chisels
Sharpening kit - Grinder and Diamond stone for me, don't ask for advice, just pick one system and stick with it.
Clamps (lots!!)
Lathe - for fun
There will be lots of obvious stuff I've missed due to it being late on a Saturday night, so please add to the list as necessary.
Cheers
Aled
Table saw - 10"min. Ideally 12"
Planer thickneser -10"-12"
Bandsaw - Bigger the better
The above should be SOLID and have cast iron tables - look at Rojek, Sedgwick, Robland, Startrite etc.
Morticer (or Festool Domino/Domino XL for bigger projects)
Router table and big router
Spindle moulder (the router table would be sufficient, but spindle moulder would be good for bigger work)
Router(s) and cutters - buy good quality as needed, Wealden are good.
Chop saw - again the bigger the better - I have a Makita 12" and wouldn't be without it.
Dust extraction!!
Bench (could make your own)
Hand planes (#4 1/2 and a #7 for starters... Clifton, Lie Nielsen, Veritas)
Couple of hand saws - Japanese?
Chisels
Sharpening kit - Grinder and Diamond stone for me, don't ask for advice, just pick one system and stick with it.
Clamps (lots!!)
Lathe - for fun
There will be lots of obvious stuff I've missed due to it being late on a Saturday night, so please add to the list as necessary.
Cheers
Aled
sometimewoodworker
Established Member
Think before you buy.
Good points so far. Shop Dust extraction, good bigish band saw, planer, & thicknesser.
Debatable. Big ass table saw with sliding table. Buying a hugely expensive, and for what you say you will do, inappropriate work bench.
Missing so far. Finishing stuff, spray stuff, sanders and smaller shop vac to go with them. Air tools such as fine nail guns. Also missing is any mention of Festool.
on the workbench front I would ( I have) built my own. It is a power tool workbench and was a great learning experience
http://meekings.selfip.com/nui/Groups-of-photos/Wood_work_etc/Pages/Workbench.html
Why I say the big (very expensive ) table saw with sliding table is debatable. Is that a Festool TS55 saw and track together with a CT vac. Beats any sliding table setup for ease of use. With the track saw you don't have to manoeuvre big heavy sheets on to the saw. This rapidly becomes hard work & no fun. Just the opposite of what you want. Also cutting sheet goods on a table needs way too much room.
That said a good table saw with a crosscut sled will be great. Think SawStop (expensive but high quality) and less chance of cutting off pink soft stuff
For sanding I have gone the Festool path. I used to hate it now it's OK. for finishing spray is difficult to beat unless you want to put in a lot of your time into that part of your work. I don't except for a little French polishing.
Another tool I needed that hasn't been mentioned is a SCMS. I didn't buy a Festool one as it was just too expensive. I've just had a lot of fun building a stand for it that matches my work bench. http://meekings.selfip.com/nui/Groups-of-photos/Wood_work_etc/Pages/Miter_Saw_Stand.html
You should also look into the Festool Domino. For a power tool user it makes life so easy fun and fast.
For me the fun is designing, building quickly & accurately, sanding quickly without dust, & getting I nice finish on fast. For that mostly power tools work for me.
YMMV But have fun & don't rush into buying stuff that is good for some people. It may well not be the best for you.
Good points so far. Shop Dust extraction, good bigish band saw, planer, & thicknesser.
Debatable. Big ass table saw with sliding table. Buying a hugely expensive, and for what you say you will do, inappropriate work bench.
Missing so far. Finishing stuff, spray stuff, sanders and smaller shop vac to go with them. Air tools such as fine nail guns. Also missing is any mention of Festool.
on the workbench front I would ( I have) built my own. It is a power tool workbench and was a great learning experience
http://meekings.selfip.com/nui/Groups-of-photos/Wood_work_etc/Pages/Workbench.html
Why I say the big (very expensive ) table saw with sliding table is debatable. Is that a Festool TS55 saw and track together with a CT vac. Beats any sliding table setup for ease of use. With the track saw you don't have to manoeuvre big heavy sheets on to the saw. This rapidly becomes hard work & no fun. Just the opposite of what you want. Also cutting sheet goods on a table needs way too much room.
That said a good table saw with a crosscut sled will be great. Think SawStop (expensive but high quality) and less chance of cutting off pink soft stuff
For sanding I have gone the Festool path. I used to hate it now it's OK. for finishing spray is difficult to beat unless you want to put in a lot of your time into that part of your work. I don't except for a little French polishing.
Another tool I needed that hasn't been mentioned is a SCMS. I didn't buy a Festool one as it was just too expensive. I've just had a lot of fun building a stand for it that matches my work bench. http://meekings.selfip.com/nui/Groups-of-photos/Wood_work_etc/Pages/Miter_Saw_Stand.html
You should also look into the Festool Domino. For a power tool user it makes life so easy fun and fast.
For me the fun is designing, building quickly & accurately, sanding quickly without dust, & getting I nice finish on fast. For that mostly power tools work for me.
YMMV But have fun & don't rush into buying stuff that is good for some people. It may well not be the best for you.
Lons
Established Member
Hi John
I asume that the cost of your workshop does not come out of the £20k ?
I think also that at this stage I wouldn't worry yet about equiping it and that you should concentrate on getting the shell up. I'd also go as large as you possibly can as there never is enough space and you can easily throw up internal partition walls to section off for office, spray / finishing, storage etc once you know what you are doing.
Once the basic shell was up I would look at what and where to place the main machinery and possibly route some electrics or at least ducting to those points before the floor was laid (assuming concrete).
As a builder (like me) you would of course make sure the insulation, ventilation and electrics etc were spot on. Don't forget to carefully plan the windows for best natural light and think very carefully about the issue of security. You've probably used suntunnels which are a great way of getting light in to dark corners if necessary.
Of course, you might just want the fun of planning through the dark winter months and nothing wrong with that as it's great fun. Easy to think you can do what actually you can't so as said - look at some training.
I'd go along with buying tools and machinery as you need them and buy quality not quantity or they'll end up in the back of a cupboard or the skip. Also wit the suggestion to look s/h. I have a 10" sip t/s bought new which is fine for me but bought a mint Robland planer/thicknesser for £700 which is superb IMO I also got an old Elu spindle moulder for peanuts and bought a new Axminster morticer but you need to decide and try out your projects before you waste your money as it's a given you'll change direction.
Just my pennerth 'cos I've nowt to do sitting here by the poolside in Australia. Back to reality next Sat though
I asume that the cost of your workshop does not come out of the £20k ?
I think also that at this stage I wouldn't worry yet about equiping it and that you should concentrate on getting the shell up. I'd also go as large as you possibly can as there never is enough space and you can easily throw up internal partition walls to section off for office, spray / finishing, storage etc once you know what you are doing.
Once the basic shell was up I would look at what and where to place the main machinery and possibly route some electrics or at least ducting to those points before the floor was laid (assuming concrete).
As a builder (like me) you would of course make sure the insulation, ventilation and electrics etc were spot on. Don't forget to carefully plan the windows for best natural light and think very carefully about the issue of security. You've probably used suntunnels which are a great way of getting light in to dark corners if necessary.
Of course, you might just want the fun of planning through the dark winter months and nothing wrong with that as it's great fun. Easy to think you can do what actually you can't so as said - look at some training.
I'm surprised by that! All the builders I come in to contact with have a mulitude of tools and usually at least a site saw or mitre saw, hand held circ, jigsaws etc.
I'd go along with buying tools and machinery as you need them and buy quality not quantity or they'll end up in the back of a cupboard or the skip. Also wit the suggestion to look s/h. I have a 10" sip t/s bought new which is fine for me but bought a mint Robland planer/thicknesser for £700 which is superb IMO I also got an old Elu spindle moulder for peanuts and bought a new Axminster morticer but you need to decide and try out your projects before you waste your money as it's a given you'll change direction.
Just my pennerth 'cos I've nowt to do sitting here by the poolside in Australia.
Back to reality next Sat though 
JohnPeel
Member
It's been a while, but I am at last looking at starting my workshop within the next few months. After deciding where we wanted to live, Tan Lan near Prestatyn North Wales, we purchased a small 16 century stone built Toll House.
We bought the place in April 2012. It has a couple of acres, an outbuilding that was a pigsty hundreds of years ago, and hasnt changed since. This will be my workshop.
Sadly, it has taken until now (May 2013), to sell our other house, so we have been skint until now. Due to injuries sustained when I got hit by that articulated lorry, I have not worked since I first posted here. We have a little barber shop in Liverpool, and that ticks us over.
Needless to say, I have been bored shi&less for the last year, and we have frozen to death in this old stone house. But anyway, we made it through and I can now start on the workshop. It is a shame you cant post pictures on here, so I have made some small videos of my future shop.
This is the pigsty and this is before I start clearing it in 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60rTvLxaAHg
The is the pigsty now it has had a bit of clearing, that was damn hard work I can tell you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiNnjijh ... =endscreen
I plan to extend it out to the front by another 10 feet and the full width of the shop. I plan to put a poly roof on the extention and patio doors for access. This are will be for my mitre saw station and workbench.
I havent quite decided what to do with the 2 main rooms in original building as yet. My first thought was to use the smaller room on the left as a safe storeroom, with a steel door. The wall are already nearly 2 feet thick so it would be pretty save to store all my equipment in there, and just bring it out or wheel it out when needed. At least that would keep some of the dust of them.
The other larger room on the right, will be made into 2 rooms, one of them for varnishing and painting, and the other for a noisy lathe and other larger equipment I want to wheel out into the extention when I want to use them. Again have a steel door installed.
The little open pigsty area at the for right of the building I will use to store wood.
Anyway, these are my ideas, but I would really like some advise on how best to use the space I have. Remember that I dont have to earn a huge living. Just a 100 or 200 a week will be plenty for me, as we dont have a mortgage or any finance, and I am limited with my health to be able to work for anyone else. Of course, a better living than that would be great
We bought the place in April 2012. It has a couple of acres, an outbuilding that was a pigsty hundreds of years ago, and hasnt changed since. This will be my workshop.
Sadly, it has taken until now (May 2013), to sell our other house, so we have been skint until now. Due to injuries sustained when I got hit by that articulated lorry, I have not worked since I first posted here. We have a little barber shop in Liverpool, and that ticks us over.
Needless to say, I have been bored shi&less for the last year, and we have frozen to death in this old stone house. But anyway, we made it through and I can now start on the workshop. It is a shame you cant post pictures on here, so I have made some small videos of my future shop.
This is the pigsty and this is before I start clearing it in 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60rTvLxaAHg
The is the pigsty now it has had a bit of clearing, that was damn hard work I can tell you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiNnjijh ... =endscreen
I plan to extend it out to the front by another 10 feet and the full width of the shop. I plan to put a poly roof on the extention and patio doors for access. This are will be for my mitre saw station and workbench.
I havent quite decided what to do with the 2 main rooms in original building as yet. My first thought was to use the smaller room on the left as a safe storeroom, with a steel door. The wall are already nearly 2 feet thick so it would be pretty save to store all my equipment in there, and just bring it out or wheel it out when needed. At least that would keep some of the dust of them.
The other larger room on the right, will be made into 2 rooms, one of them for varnishing and painting, and the other for a noisy lathe and other larger equipment I want to wheel out into the extention when I want to use them. Again have a steel door installed.
The little open pigsty area at the for right of the building I will use to store wood.
Anyway, these are my ideas, but I would really like some advise on how best to use the space I have. Remember that I dont have to earn a huge living. Just a 100 or 200 a week will be plenty for me, as we dont have a mortgage or any finance, and I am limited with my health to be able to work for anyone else. Of course, a better living than that would be great
JohnPeel
Member
And my budget is 30k. With this money I have to make my workshop, add tools and equipment, and whatever is left I will want to use to buy a double cab pickup.
I know, a tall order hey?
I do have tools already that I have built up over the years, including:
SIP Extractor with attachments for table saws and the like.
Router Table
Large Makita Router
Several Drill
Small Scheppach Bandsaw
Paslode Framing Nailer
Dozens of Clamps
Makita LS1013 Sliding 10" Mitre Saw
Drill Press
Bosch 36v Battery Chainsaw
Scheppach Scroll Saw
Air Compressor with spraying equipment
Loads of hand tools like hammers, spanners, screwdrivers, and the like.
Metal Cutting Chopsaw
3 Circular Saws in different sizes.
Sanders
Sanding station with belt and disc sanding
Oscillating Bobbin Sander
Hand Saws
Angle Grinders
And that's all I can think of at the moment!
I know, a tall order hey?
I do have tools already that I have built up over the years, including:
SIP Extractor with attachments for table saws and the like.
Router Table
Large Makita Router
Several Drill
Small Scheppach Bandsaw
Paslode Framing Nailer
Dozens of Clamps
Makita LS1013 Sliding 10" Mitre Saw
Drill Press
Bosch 36v Battery Chainsaw
Scheppach Scroll Saw
Air Compressor with spraying equipment
Loads of hand tools like hammers, spanners, screwdrivers, and the like.
Metal Cutting Chopsaw
3 Circular Saws in different sizes.
Sanders
Sanding station with belt and disc sanding
Oscillating Bobbin Sander
Hand Saws
Angle Grinders
And that's all I can think of at the moment!
With unlimited space, 20k and the intent to make things largely my machine, I'd probably be looking at reconditioned industrial machines (Wadkin, Stenner, SCM, Stromab & Weinig)... I have more to say, just not the time to post right now.
i think that i would be tempted to buy a sample of what you want to make and reverse engineer it. Then find somebody nearby that you can buy a day or twos training with, and go have a go at each process. See what machines you need/use, what options there are etc and take it from there.
JohnPeel
Member
Yes, training seems like the key. After my first 5 years from leaving school as an Hod Carrier in the UK and in Australia, I set up a landscaping and building company, with not a dot of experience, other than carrying an Hod and developing a huge lump of hard skin on my shoulder as a result, and left looking like Q-Modo.
Within a few years, I had a fantastic team of tradesmen, and some worked for me for more than 10 years. But for me, it was the woodwork. If there was decking, trellis, arbours, or any timber garden structure, I was on it, that was MY job. And after nearly 30 years at that, I became pretty good at working with woodworking tools and equipment, and I still have all my fingers, all 9 of them.
But to work in a workshop, making small things, with small things, Dovetails, hand plains, and all kinds of small tools, then I have a lot to learn I think. But I dont plan on making fine furniture, god only knows were I would start with staining and finishing. But I am looking forward to it all the same.
I will check out Axminster Tools, reverse engineering, and I will look into training too
Within a few years, I had a fantastic team of tradesmen, and some worked for me for more than 10 years. But for me, it was the woodwork. If there was decking, trellis, arbours, or any timber garden structure, I was on it, that was MY job. And after nearly 30 years at that, I became pretty good at working with woodworking tools and equipment, and I still have all my fingers, all 9 of them.
But to work in a workshop, making small things, with small things, Dovetails, hand plains, and all kinds of small tools, then I have a lot to learn I think. But I dont plan on making fine furniture, god only knows were I would start with staining and finishing. But I am looking forward to it all the same.
I will check out Axminster Tools, reverse engineering, and I will look into training too
heimlaga
Established Member
Well.....I have some thoughts and oppinions but they are just oppoinions and no absolute truths coming from a 31 year old carpenter who have branched out into joinery....... so do not take me too seriously.
If you aim for a part time business making joinery and having long experience as a builder I find it likely that you will end up making odd one off doors and windows for builders and private house owners who fix up old houses where standard doors and windows will not fit. I do that kind of work and there isn't much money in it but I get a decent hourly pay as long as I keep the costs down. I have taken that possibility into account when specifying tools and machinery.
I would suggest buying secondhand machines. You would get a good set of high quality tools and machinery seconhand for much less than 20000 pounds. I have have less than 10000 euros in tooling and nothing gets better from throwing money away. My table saw/spindle moulder/planer/thicknesser combination was made in 1957 and my mortiser sometimes around 1945 but after a thorough rebuild they work well and as far as I can see they still have at least 50 years of useful life before them.
If you want to spend more then a bigger shop is a better way to invest the money. I would extend the old pig sty even more than you plan on doing. I am also a firm advocate of three phase power if you can get it by any means. Almost all professional quality woodworking machinery is 3 phase and there is a valid reason for this.
Stationary machinery:
-Table saw. I would suggest a medium sized one with a small sliding table. At least 2,2KW motor preferably over 3KW.
-Planer/thicknesser. A combination takes up less room than separates. Mine has 24" capacity and that is very useful but down to 12" would probably be barely sufficient. The heavier the better as there cannot ever be enough cast iron in a machine of this kind.
-Spindle moulder. It has to have 30mm spindle diametre to take industrial tooling and either a sliding table or a tennoning sled that can be bolted onto the table. The heavier the better is the rule.
-Mortiser. May be either a vertical slot mortiser or a hollow chisel mortiser. The bigger and heavier the better.
-Band saw. I would prefere a proper cast iron band saw with tilting table. 24" wheels or something like that.
-Drill press. Any reasonably solid drill press should do because it will likely not be used very heavily if you don't do metalworking but there has to be one around.
-Electric mitre saw. I love the old Elu PS 174 but it's modern counterpart that DeWalt still makes is almost as good.
-Waterstone grinder and bench grinder for sharpening tools. The larger Tormeks are good waterstone grinders but Geoprodukter in Sweden makes a good waterstone/bench grinder combination called Kirunaslipen that would give you both functions in one tool. Though I do not know wheher they are sold in England.
-Dust collector. A large one bag unit or a two bag unit should do. At least 2,2Kw motor.
This is the types of machinery I have and need except the band saw that I sorely miss but have no room for. I do not think a lathe would be worth the cost. I have one that I got when I was a teenager but in reality it is almost only used for turning chisel handles as the old ones split and have to be renewed. Chisel handles can be whittled with a knife. There is no profit whatsoever in turning stuff by hand unless you are able to make yourself a name as an artist and sell to art connoseurs worlwide.
Table saw and spindle moulder and planer and thicknesser and vertical slot mortiser may be a combination machine. Wadkin and Stenberg and l'Invincible and Felser were four reputable makers of such combinations. Elderly ones can be found for reasonable prizes. A combination will save a lot of space but it will slow down production a wee bit and require more planning ahead. Some people who have a less structured mind are seemingly unable to get any useful work done on a combination while most get along well. It is only a matter of personality and space limits wherther one goes for separates or a combination.
I suggest this list as a possioble starting point when planning the shop. Figure out the space requirements for the machines including infeed and outfeed of long stock plus room for a solid joiner's workbench. A conveniently placed door or opening in a wall may be practical to open when planing long boards. Then extend your pig sty to fit.
Probably you will have to knock down the partition wall and make a door in one gable wall and add an extention to that end. When the building is finished buy an old table saw and bring in the tools you already have and let time tell what it all grows into. Many small rooms do not make a practical shop in my oppinion.
However first and foremost you should get some training.
Good luck
Good luck.
If you aim for a part time business making joinery and having long experience as a builder I find it likely that you will end up making odd one off doors and windows for builders and private house owners who fix up old houses where standard doors and windows will not fit. I do that kind of work and there isn't much money in it but I get a decent hourly pay as long as I keep the costs down. I have taken that possibility into account when specifying tools and machinery.
I would suggest buying secondhand machines. You would get a good set of high quality tools and machinery seconhand for much less than 20000 pounds. I have have less than 10000 euros in tooling and nothing gets better from throwing money away. My table saw/spindle moulder/planer/thicknesser combination was made in 1957 and my mortiser sometimes around 1945 but after a thorough rebuild they work well and as far as I can see they still have at least 50 years of useful life before them.
If you want to spend more then a bigger shop is a better way to invest the money. I would extend the old pig sty even more than you plan on doing. I am also a firm advocate of three phase power if you can get it by any means. Almost all professional quality woodworking machinery is 3 phase and there is a valid reason for this.
Stationary machinery:
-Table saw. I would suggest a medium sized one with a small sliding table. At least 2,2KW motor preferably over 3KW.
-Planer/thicknesser. A combination takes up less room than separates. Mine has 24" capacity and that is very useful but down to 12" would probably be barely sufficient. The heavier the better as there cannot ever be enough cast iron in a machine of this kind.
-Spindle moulder. It has to have 30mm spindle diametre to take industrial tooling and either a sliding table or a tennoning sled that can be bolted onto the table. The heavier the better is the rule.
-Mortiser. May be either a vertical slot mortiser or a hollow chisel mortiser. The bigger and heavier the better.
-Band saw. I would prefere a proper cast iron band saw with tilting table. 24" wheels or something like that.
-Drill press. Any reasonably solid drill press should do because it will likely not be used very heavily if you don't do metalworking but there has to be one around.
-Electric mitre saw. I love the old Elu PS 174 but it's modern counterpart that DeWalt still makes is almost as good.
-Waterstone grinder and bench grinder for sharpening tools. The larger Tormeks are good waterstone grinders but Geoprodukter in Sweden makes a good waterstone/bench grinder combination called Kirunaslipen that would give you both functions in one tool. Though I do not know wheher they are sold in England.
-Dust collector. A large one bag unit or a two bag unit should do. At least 2,2Kw motor.
This is the types of machinery I have and need except the band saw that I sorely miss but have no room for. I do not think a lathe would be worth the cost. I have one that I got when I was a teenager but in reality it is almost only used for turning chisel handles as the old ones split and have to be renewed. Chisel handles can be whittled with a knife. There is no profit whatsoever in turning stuff by hand unless you are able to make yourself a name as an artist and sell to art connoseurs worlwide.
Table saw and spindle moulder and planer and thicknesser and vertical slot mortiser may be a combination machine. Wadkin and Stenberg and l'Invincible and Felser were four reputable makers of such combinations. Elderly ones can be found for reasonable prizes. A combination will save a lot of space but it will slow down production a wee bit and require more planning ahead. Some people who have a less structured mind are seemingly unable to get any useful work done on a combination while most get along well. It is only a matter of personality and space limits wherther one goes for separates or a combination.
I suggest this list as a possioble starting point when planning the shop. Figure out the space requirements for the machines including infeed and outfeed of long stock plus room for a solid joiner's workbench. A conveniently placed door or opening in a wall may be practical to open when planing long boards. Then extend your pig sty to fit.
Probably you will have to knock down the partition wall and make a door in one gable wall and add an extention to that end. When the building is finished buy an old table saw and bring in the tools you already have and let time tell what it all grows into. Many small rooms do not make a practical shop in my oppinion.
However first and foremost you should get some training.
Good luck
Good luck.
JohnPeel
Member
Wow! That's some info there. And plenty to think about.
I agree that second hand will be the way to go, as I am not highly skilled in a lot of woodworking, I will likely see a new machine turn gnarly pretty quickly My most recent purchase was the Makita LS1030 Mitre saw. I had planned on buying this new, but found it online second hand a few miles from me, and after a little battle, I got it for £110 instead of paying £500. If I keep going like that, my budget will be down to 3k for sure.
I was surprised to see your coment about the spindle moulder, as I had always thought of these machines as a huge router table that can cause some damage to health. Is there really a need for this type of machinery for me, and how can this thing help me make money?
I agree that second hand will be the way to go, as I am not highly skilled in a lot of woodworking, I will likely see a new machine turn gnarly pretty quickly
My most recent purchase was the Makita LS1030 Mitre saw. I had planned on buying this new, but found it online second hand a few miles from me, and after a little battle, I got it for £110 instead of paying £500. If I keep going like that, my budget will be down to 3k for sure.I was surprised to see your coment about the spindle moulder, as I had always thought of these machines as a huge router table that can cause some damage to health. Is there really a need for this type of machinery for me, and how can this thing help me make money?
JohnPeel":2bt42xit said:
The router table is more like a small underpowered substitute for a spindle moulder, which is limited to commercially available profiles (for a spindle you can grind your own profile knives for any shape desired)... They are capable of doing particularly serious damage (even moreso if you use the older [now thankfully banned] tooling) but when guarded and used properly, it should be very hard to get you hands near the cutter.
heimlaga
Established Member
I agree with Jelly.
In the old days there were square heads where long profile knives were bolted to the lead with a single bolt. If the bolt stretched or loosened you had a projectile comming out of the machine at belly height. Some even used so called spikes in the square heads and theese seen even more dangerous. There is a reson why those heads have earned the nickname "kamikaze heads" up here but they are still commonly used despite being banned. There were also the often debated slip knife collars and other types of heads which are banned theese days but still used a lot.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got interrupted when writing so from here forward I aw writing using the Edit option an hour or so later:
A spindle moulder can be used for a lot of things. With a rubber wheeled feedwork it becomes fairly efficient for running fairly large batches of mouldings and rebates and the like but small batches can be fed by hand. Using a tennoning sled or a sliding table it can also be used for cuttilng all types of tennons and slots. For instance window sash corners.
All those things can be done with table saw and router table and hand tools such as chisels and profile planes and back saws but a spindle moulder saves a lot of time and makes in my oppinion the difference between hobby whork where time is not counted on and semi-professional work where one at least has a chance to get some kind of hourly pay. For instance a door jamb rebate 14x42 mm can be cut in one pass on a spindle moulder while it would take many passes on a router table.
In the old days there were square heads where long profile knives were bolted to the lead with a single bolt. If the bolt stretched or loosened you had a projectile comming out of the machine at belly height. Some even used so called spikes in the square heads and theese seen even more dangerous. There is a reson why those heads have earned the nickname "kamikaze heads" up here but they are still commonly used despite being banned. There were also the often debated slip knife collars and other types of heads which are banned theese days but still used a lot.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got interrupted when writing so from here forward I aw writing using the Edit option an hour or so later:
A spindle moulder can be used for a lot of things. With a rubber wheeled feedwork it becomes fairly efficient for running fairly large batches of mouldings and rebates and the like but small batches can be fed by hand. Using a tennoning sled or a sliding table it can also be used for cuttilng all types of tennons and slots. For instance window sash corners.
All those things can be done with table saw and router table and hand tools such as chisels and profile planes and back saws but a spindle moulder saves a lot of time and makes in my oppinion the difference between hobby whork where time is not counted on and semi-professional work where one at least has a chance to get some kind of hourly pay. For instance a door jamb rebate 14x42 mm can be cut in one pass on a spindle moulder while it would take many passes on a router table.
I've never had such a large budget for a new project/career change but my experience is that most of the 'wasted money' is spent in the first 2 years. Years 3 and 4 I'd spend wishing I hadn't bought this that and t'other.
Training sounds great and keep in mind that Festool have a no quibble 30 day return policy. Get the stock in for a few projects and treat yourself to their TS55 saw and track and their MPT workbench. I want that bench so bad but can't bring myself to spend that much on a tool that doesn't have a motor. One day I'll convince myself...
I find a Henry vac good enough for their saw and RO150 sander but if you find that Festools are for you, then add one of their vacs.
My tool budget is £500pa and I'm getting there.
Training sounds great and keep in mind that Festool have a no quibble 30 day return policy. Get the stock in for a few projects and treat yourself to their TS55 saw and track and their MPT workbench. I want that bench so bad but can't bring myself to spend that much on a tool that doesn't have a motor.
One day I'll convince myself...I find a Henry vac good enough for their saw and RO150 sander but if you find that Festools are for you, then add one of their vacs.
My tool budget is £500pa and I'm getting there.
Hardwood66
Established Member
If your interested
I might have an Elu ras1571a2 for sale in a few weeks if that helps. will let you know russ
I might have an Elu ras1571a2 for sale in a few weeks if that helps. will let you know russ
Given that you have a substantive budget, semi-commercial/commercial aspirations and the opportunity to build a workshop to suit you I'd personally suggest something along the lines of:
Band Resaw, Planer Moulder, Spindle moulder with Tenoning Carriage & Powerfeed, Mortising Machine, Panel Saw, Radial Arm Saw and a large Extractor
Using Ebay, I managed to price that setup at £15,240.00 (see individual links above).
My reasoning is that it's going to make more economic sense to buy timber in it's rough state and then convert it for your specific items; hence suggesting a band-resaw and planer-moulder... if you didn't anticipate particularly large quantities of planed or shaped material then the more conventional planer-thicknesser might be a better option (saving £1000), you do loose the facility to produce 4-side planed and eased timber quickly and easily though, something which would be very useful for producing garden furniture.
Depending on what exactly you want to do, you may wish to add tools for more specialized tasks: a medium sized bandsaw (something like a startrite or record power) for cutting shaped work, a lathe for turned work (depends if that interests you at all) or a Drilling/Boring and/or Slot/Chain Mortising machine (if you want to use lots of bolts & fixings in a highly repeatable way).
I would encourage you to view the assembly area as being equally important and to spend a proportion of the money on that rather than all machinery. A large torsion box assembly table, an appropriately sized area of clear floor-space and a handwork bench, and along with that a wide (ideally bewilderingly so) variety of clamps.
Purchasing second hand machinery you can have a substantive commercial workshop for within your budget, with the equipment to minimize the cost of your raw materials by reducing both purchase price, and the time taken processing it.
I'm willing to admit it's a bit of a radical suggestion; but it meets an equally radical decision to invest significantly in a workshop for machine led woodwork.
Band Resaw, Planer Moulder, Spindle moulder with Tenoning Carriage & Powerfeed, Mortising Machine, Panel Saw, Radial Arm Saw and a large Extractor
Using Ebay, I managed to price that setup at £15,240.00 (see individual links above).
My reasoning is that it's going to make more economic sense to buy timber in it's rough state and then convert it for your specific items; hence suggesting a band-resaw and planer-moulder... if you didn't anticipate particularly large quantities of planed or shaped material then the more conventional planer-thicknesser might be a better option (saving £1000), you do loose the facility to produce 4-side planed and eased timber quickly and easily though, something which would be very useful for producing garden furniture.
Depending on what exactly you want to do, you may wish to add tools for more specialized tasks: a medium sized bandsaw (something like a startrite or record power) for cutting shaped work, a lathe for turned work (depends if that interests you at all) or a Drilling/Boring and/or Slot/Chain Mortising machine (if you want to use lots of bolts & fixings in a highly repeatable way).
I would encourage you to view the assembly area as being equally important and to spend a proportion of the money on that rather than all machinery. A large torsion box assembly table, an appropriately sized area of clear floor-space and a handwork bench, and along with that a wide (ideally bewilderingly so) variety of clamps.
Purchasing second hand machinery you can have a substantive commercial workshop for within your budget, with the equipment to minimize the cost of your raw materials by reducing both purchase price, and the time taken processing it.
I'm willing to admit it's a bit of a radical suggestion; but it meets an equally radical decision to invest significantly in a workshop for machine led woodwork.
