What makes new hand planes bad?

[bugbear]

I've tried it on a few bits of timber now, and it is snagging and jumping quite a lot, I did get it working nicely for a few strokes and got a nice smooth edge on a short board, but that didn't last and it's back to jumping and catching.

My guess, given your stated beginner status, is that you've got way too much blade out, trying to take too thick a shaving. Try aiming for a super thin shaving. One doesn't always want a super thin shaving, but as an experiment, it may serve you well.

BugBear

 

[IHc1vtr+]

I have a couple of new faithfull one's and i am quite happy with them. Came with a 5yr guarantee as well.

 

[L2wis]

I've just now created a post regarding a troublesome brand new Irwin Record #04 plane I was given for christmas (Amazon link), so far I've had to do a few jobs... Consisting of reshaping the blade adjusters as one of them comes out of place when moving the iron back and forth minor issue I guess although I've noticed the problem has come back so I've got to revisit it. The chip breaker was very poorly finished so I've had a shot of smarting it and reshaping the business end where it meets the iron, this needs more time on it, polished the machine marks out of the metal just after the front edge, the edges of it are all dinged up out the box which made me think it had a protective plastic sheet on it (but it hasn't). The worse problem though of all is easily the flatness of the sole, I've not had that many planes come through my hand but the sole on this seems massively out and still isn't flat.

If it had not been a gift it would certainly had been sent back. I'll be pleased if I ever get the sole flat.

 

[Tom K]

You have your Dads old plane but how old is your Dad? If he's not pushing 80 his "old" plane might be modern junk like a lot of the "vintage" stuff I see on e bay that's younger than my kids!

 

[Craigus]

Thanks guys

I had a fettle with it today and got some lovely shavings. I think I had the blade too far out. I've also ordered a new iron and cap iron from workshop heaven as the current iron isn't in a great way. Hopefully it will be lovely when I've got all the new bits in.

The plane turns out to be my Grandfathers who passed it onto my Dad when he retired, so it must be pre-war.

 

[heimlaga]

One of my friends bought a new Irwin Record block plane. To make it usable he had to scrape and file various parts quite a bit and he also had to harden and temper the blade.
The only way to make a good plane out of it would have started with melting down the cast iron and recasting it...... but it became barely usable after the treatment.
Too low production costs means that processes have to be limplified and inferrior production methods used and less skilled workers emproyed and quality control abolished. Those together create a certain type of product, a uselessplane shaped object.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

Cost of production, and profit attainable through distribution line, including manufacturer and wholesale/retail sellers?

Maybe 8 or 10 years ago, I bought a #3 size smoother from a low cost, import tool store called Harbor Freight (here in the states), with the explicit reason to determine if the plane could be made to perform using machining techniques at the manufacturing plant I own. The cost of the plane was about $10.00 US. A guy on one of the US tool forums was selling blades for this particular plane for about $25.00 (O1 & 1/8" thick). I had one of my machinists grind the sole perfectly smooth and square the sides and mill the blade bedding area smooth. Anyhow, without doing anything to the wood, with my machinist's time, the new blade and cost of the plane, I ended up with a small smoother that could easily take full width shavings at .0015" in cherry (total cost around $75 to $85 US).

I didn't really use the plane and gave it away a few years ago. It must be noted that I had the plane long enough for the casting to season, and when I gave the plane away, it showed no evidence of the casting having moved.

I like my LN, LV, Clifton and vintage Stanley & Record planes, however, there is a place for these planes from the Pacific Rim as they can be made to perform. I've never handled any of the planes spoken of/sold in the UK, nor have I tried a Woodriver (US, sold by Woodcraft), but I believe there is a place for these and as the makers refine their techniques, the result may be positive for our craft.

 

[rafezetter]

Cost of production, and profit attainable through distribution line, including manufacturer and wholesale/retail sellers?

Maybe 8 or 10 years ago, I bought a #3 size smoother from a low cost, import tool store called Harbor Freight (here in the states), with the explicit reason to determine if the plane could be made to perform using machining techniques at the manufacturing plant I own. The cost of the plane was about $10.00 US. A guy on one of the US tool forums was selling blades for this particular plane for about $25.00 (O1 & 1/8" thick). I had one of my machinists grind the sole perfectly smooth and square the sides and mill the blade bedding area smooth. Anyhow, without doing anything to the wood, with my machinist's time, the new blade and cost of the plane, I ended up with a small smoother that could easily take full width shavings at .0015" in cherry (total cost around $75 to $85 US).

I didn't really use the plane and gave it away a few years ago. It must be noted that I had the plane long enough for the casting to season, and when I gave the plane away, it showed no evidence of the casting having moved.

I like my LN, LV, Clifton and vintage Stanley & Record planes, however, there is a place for these planes from the Pacific Rim as they can be made to perform. I've never handled any of the planes spoken of/sold in the UK, nor have I tried a Woodriver (US, sold by Woodcraft), but I believe there is a place for these and as the makers refine their techniques, the result may be positive for our craft.

It must be noted though that you had to go to those lengths, using machinery costing in the 10's of thousands probably - plus pay your machinist for his time AND buy a new blade, so a bit more than the $80 odd you quoted.

An OLD ebay find plane - and it's simple enough to keep looking until you find a pre-war one, all Stanleys have markers to identify age, helped me to get my 1910 #7 - is surely better to give it a new lease of life than make a sow's ear purse out of a sow's ear? Ebay is awash with planes, and you can obviously tell which sellers are actually interested in what they are selling and will help with extra pics if needed.

The less of the cheap rubbish sold, the more incentive to go back to better manufacturing - or keep the better quality companies in business. Having said that my cheap faithful #4 made into a scrub works fine enough with a little tuning.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

I kept track of my machinist's time, but I did not add a burden rate for the machinery. My figure included the blade purchased from Jim Reed, on Woodnet.

Harbor Freight planes are the cheapest of the cheap, but this one was made to perform. I do not make a habit of purchasing items I view as cheap, but did this as an exercise to see requirements to make the plane perform. The plane was a #3 size and did not have a frog, relying on two thumb screws to adjust the blade, so the thicker blade also aided in closing up the mouth. All in all, it was a very simple plane.

As I have never handled one of the other Bedrock clones, such as a Woodriver, etc., I can't estimate time needed, if any. But yes, my cost did include labor, but not the cost of machinery.