Waterstones, Guides, Diamond Stones many old new questions.

[Chems]

So many methods there are, I got good results with the Tormek but got out of square edges more than once and even my best efforts with it weren't as sharp as Alfs Spokeshave. Its not a complete soultion that what I learnt.

Just to throw cats in amongst pigeons, that had the final edge put on (A2) with a fine Arkansas oilstone, freehand. Wise grasshopper could learn much from this if grasshopper puts mind to it. One of which is "Not all irons will fit in honourable honing guide" and another is "Does not matter what the abrasive is, it is how grasshopper use it that leads way to path of enlightenment". However, be relieved to hear that sound of one hand sharpening not pertinent to grasshopper's quest. :wink:

Cheers, Alf
Who may possibly have been over-doing the noodle soup

I showed it to a friend the other day (the spokeshave) and he couldn't get over the fact someone made it and gifted it for an internet forum!

At the moment I'm free hand sharpening on some 3M stuff from Richard as a trial and some pocket diamond cards. I'm actually ok at it. I think the sharpening this seems to be try a load of methods an see which you personally like best.

 

[woodbloke]

(fast, cheap, simple, cheap, effective, cheap...)

Stu.

...and messy :lol: - Rob

 

[Schtoo]

(fast, cheap, simple, cheap, effective, cheap...)

Stu.

...and messy :lol: - Rob

Really?

In the past week I've used an oil stone and diamond paste as well as waterstones. I don't care how much ammunition you can collect, the oil stone and paste were orders of magnitude nastier to clean up after.

Just an observation is all.


Stu.

 

[woodbloke]

(fast, cheap, simple, cheap, effective, cheap...)

Stu.

...and messy :lol: - Rob

Really?

In the past week I've used an oil stone and diamond paste as well as waterstones. I don't care how much ammunition you can collect, the oil stone and paste were orders of magnitude nastier to clean up after.

Just an observation is all.


Stu.

Stu, I used waterstones as well a few years ago. They were OK, but by far the most irritating thing :evil: was the sheer amount of goo that accumulated very rapidly. If you've access to a sink and running water then waterstones become a much more pleasant option, but I think it's fair to say that most hobbyist 'shops here in the UK don't have that luxury - Rob

 

[Schtoo]

Ahh, I see the problem...

The clay based stones are nasty messy.

Newer ceramic type stones are nothing of the sort. Keep it all in a tray like I do, and there's no mess that isn't portable enough to just pick up and carry away. Occasionally, there'll be some sludge in the tray, but it's a tray so you pick it up and underneath, pristine! Plus it's all water based, so it cleans up with water.

Seriously, the messy argument is losing it's punch. In the last week I've used oil stones and hated the greasy rubbish that came with it, and then diamond paste was slimy rubbish that was an absolute >female dog< to get off things, especially my hands. I still can't get some of the junk out from under my nails.

But, I know many won't listen to that, and they still think waterstones need lots of flattening as well. I do what I can to diffuse the misinformation, but, it's still only words...

Oh well...

Stu.

 

[SVB]

Stu,

Are you sure you are talking about waterstones? It sounds like you are refering to ceramic stones (Shapton et al) which are a different item altogether - the only common factor is that both use water as a lubricant.

BRgds
S

 

[Schtoo]

Stu,

Are you sure you are talking about waterstones? It sounds like you are refering to ceramic stones (Shapton et al) which are a different item altogether - the only common factor is that both use water as a lubricant.

BRgds
S

You are quite correct, technically. The problem is that when it comes to the term "waterstone", all too often any sharpening stone that needs water to function correctly is thrown into the pile. The difference between 'definition' and 'common usage'.

Again, annoying, but this battle isn't worth fighting.

(FWIW, I wouldn't even define a Shapton as a ceramic stone. Resin bonded, ceramic abrasive and fragile in the bargain. True ceramic stones are seriously tough, no plastic required. :mrgreen: )

 

[Alf]

Speaking for myself, I prefer to wipe off oil from tool steel than worry about what water I haven't wiped off, although I will uphold anyone's right to slosh rust-inducing liquid about in order to sharpen their tools if they so desire... (And I might add, as an oilstone user, that the difficulty with misinformation is not solely confined to waterstones. No, sir. I'd hate to have to sell the things.)

 

[bugbear]

One might casually note that all vendors of sharpening systems claim that their offered system is quick, easy and gives razor edges, compared to all the other systems, which are slow, difficult, and lead to ordinary edges at best.

This claim is also common to most people when describing their own preferred system of sharpening.

BugBear

 

[woodbloke]

Newer ceramic type stones are nothing of the sort.

Stu.

Interesting Stu. So if the Shapton stones are not one of these newer types of waterstone, can you point us in the direction of these newer fangled thingies...linky p'raps? - Rob

 

[Chems]

I was almost tempted by the Axminster email this morning. As if they've been reading this thread infact. Veritas guide and waterstone pond and three waterstones for £89.95 saving around £18.

I think my current shopping list looks like:
Basic SS £46
80 Grit Sheet Abrasive - "I use this for regrinding an edge, takes seconds." -MicktheTree
Cheapo Honing guide £4
3M Micro Finishing Film 100 Micron £10 - "For some serious metal munching" - Rob
3M Imperial Lapping Film 0.3 Micron £11 - "I end up with a sharper edge than can be produced with the 8000 water-stone" - PeterT

 

[SVB]

Chems,

I will have a look at home but I may well have a strip of the 0.3 micron I can send you to try out before you buy if you like.

PM me your address and I will drop some in the post if I have a piece spare.

BRgds
S

 

[Schtoo]

Newer ceramic type stones are nothing of the sort.

Stu.

Interesting Stu. So if the Shapton stones are not one of these newer types of waterstone, can you point us in the direction of these newer fangled thingies...linky p'raps? - Rob

Rob, I'd love to but I fear that here, as in most other places on the innerweb, it would violate the terms of service if I pointed you where they could be found.

(Because I sell them, as Alf mentioned. )

Alf, it's interesting being a 'pusher'. At times, it's eternally frustrating especially when you see stuff thrown out there randomly that's just plain wrong, but generally accepted as gospel truth. The other side of the penny is when you give someone their "a-ha!" moment, and realise you're not just flapping your gums (fingers actually) and actually making folks realise what you're saying is how it really is, not just some fabricated ad spiel.

Even easier when you're in my shoes being an import over here, but have been given carte-blanche access to some of the best in the business, and what's more, I only got that access because I am in import, living here, doing what I do.

If I could take folks by the hand, show them what I've seen and been told, they'd never look at Japanese tools in the same way ever again. Whether they'd drunk the J-tool kool-ade or are hardened against anything not designed by someone who looks like them, they'd change their outlook. If I'm able, I'll try to get that kind of experience out there as much as possible. I care less about converting anyone than I care about making sure that the fallacies of the past are not perpetuated if I can help it. The good/bad part about this is that most of the folks I know here that have been part of it (unknowingly until it was too late) are aware of it, and are willing to give me as much help as possible to help undo it.

It is nice to know my back is covered.

Bugbear, perhaps most vendors might claim that kind of thing but I don't, won't and am not really allowed to, except from occasional digs in the ribs here and there which should be taken for what they are but occasionally are not.

I can't remember the number of times I've talked people out of spending money because I can't really see the need for them to spend the money on something that won't be of benefit to them. I won't do it, I wasn't wired that way.

(But "quick, easy and gives razor edges", since you mentioned it, yeah, why not? But you have to shave with it for it to count. I'd do it, except I don't know how to use a straight razor... :shock: )

 

[Alf]

Stu, well I didn't mention it exactly, but lots of kudos on your ability to pick a sub-text. I don't think the mods would object to you linking to your site in the interests of discussion - not least because I wouldn't be surprised if many of the options you might want to point out probably aren't available on any other site that isn't in Japanese. To be honest, I'd stick a link in your signature anyway, because you never know what traffic you might pick up. The fine nuances required are in the forum rules, top of the board.

And I know what you mean about trying to convert the heathen. I'm a bit of a hopeless missionary in the cause of combination planes, and the drivel you hear people talk about them is enough to make you weep sometimes. But when you get someone who's flushed with success after a nudge in the right direction, it does give you a buzz. So, as I'm here, um, would considering letting a Record #043 into your life...? :wink:

Oh, whoops. Topic. Um... I sharpen the 043's cutters on an oilstone too. 8-[

 

[DTR]

PM me your address and I will drop some in the post if I have a piece spare.

In the short time I've been on this forum, I've been very pleasantly surprised how many generous people there are here.

 

[Chems]

I've been on a lot of forums but this one tops it for community spirit for sure. Thanks SVB.

 

[mtt.tr]

My method is high speed grind if needed a good quality grind wheel is needed for this and dont push let the wheel do the work depending what your grinding dip it in water and for plane irons leave the chip breaker on this remover near enough all the heat.

Then i start the secondary bevel on a fine diamond (eze lap)

Then i hone on a Belgium whetstone which is just great can get a wicked edge

 

[Schtoo]

And I know what you mean about trying to convert the heathen. I'm a bit of a hopeless missionary in the cause of combination planes, and the drivel you hear people talk about them is enough to make you weep sometimes. But when you get someone who's flushed with success after a nudge in the right direction, it does give you a buzz. So, as I'm here, um, would considering letting a Record #043 into your life...? :wink:

Oh, whoops. Topic. Um... I sharpen the 043's cutters on an oilstone too. 8-[

I'd love to have a 043 here, but it wouldn't get used. I know this because I was very kindly given a 044 that I still haven't used.

(And I have an incomplete 044 back in Oz. Missing the lever cap and iron as you might expect.)

I fully expect it to work just fine the first time I use it.

On the link, I'm very touchy about it at the moment. I joined a forum a little while ago, because some folks were asking questions about things I sell, so I answered them. If I didn't answer the questions, they'd never have been answered because (shock, horror) I'm the only game in town for those items.

(Sigma Power ceramic stones. Should be a enough rope to google with there.)

Got a PM not too long after joining, directing me to the terms of service as well as a long questionnaire about who I am and what I do because I sell things.

Essentially, it was not enough to keep 'the hard sell' out of anything written, no, you need to answer the questionnaire (some of which I can't because they do things differently here. Language for a start!) and then cough up the rather hefty fee. Either that or specifically stay out of anything thread that mentions anything you sell, which was my only interest there.

I've not taken them up on their kindly (extortionist, but in a smiley kind of way) offer yet. Not sure why, maybe it's being thought of as a slimy used-car salesman by default?

That little ethical hurdle of mine is frustrating at times. Maybe I'll get over it some time soon. Who knows?

Stu.

Selling woodworking tools from Japan. :wink:

 

[RogerP]

A selection of "wet 'n dry" from 80 to 3200, a piece of thick float glass and an Eclipse. I can't see all the expensive gadgetry is necessary.

 

[Alf]

On the link, I'm very touchy about it at the moment.

Forum rules sticky at the top of the board - you're allowed without need of questionnaire or protection money.