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Wadkin's old plate type cutterblock help

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tool613

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Merry Xmas boys hope ya got what you want from Santa.

with my time off until after new years i thought i would pull the head out of the Wadkin RM and work the cutter block.
There was a stud and plate bolt missing in the head and i did not like the looks of the others. The thing that got me the most was I needed a 48"cheater pipe to brake the nut free of the head,so they were way to tight.

there is an old saying about moulding knife bolts::::
if you turn nut over and it wont thread on the threads are stretched. Most are that way and so here is were i need help.

the forged steel plate type cutterblock is really a great head with its skewed knifes and is also able to take moulding knifes. I did get the tool(spanner) for the head bolts that has short handle ,so i would think 60 to 100lbs is all that is need on the nuts.
any care to comment?

question
is there a source for the studs and nuts, and what is the grade of metal/thread etc?
the ones in there now appear to be mild steel.

The plates are tapered and so the studs lengths are long on one side and get shorter as you go across.
any old wadkin x staff around that can enlighten on how the head was balanced?

I hope this to be a discussion on the old plate type cutterblock and do not want it to turn into the safety of these old heads. I restore old wadkin kit and use it .


some pics

here is the block with the missing bolt as i got the machine



these nut does not look wadkin

this is a Wadkin nut with the rounded top.

the spanner

wadkin RM 26" over under


head removal







nice bearing on this one
2 RM 12 self aliening double rowed brass cage on the drive side with a 2308 SKF to the out board

hand scraped bearing retainer cap.

the head capless


jack
 

wallace

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Hi Jack, I notice the block is exactly the same as on my little 6" planer. When I got mine it was missing two studs, as an intermediate measure I used a decent nut and bolt to pass all the way through the cutter block. I could do with the same info as you to source some studs for mine.
Mark
 

tool613

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Mark

A little more information
these are British Standard Whitworth (BSW) 5/8".

the nuts are lathes cut with rounded tops flat bottoms. I have seen this type for slotted knifes on square head moulder over here.

jack
 

Andy RV

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Again also similar to my old 6" wadkin planer, I replaced the studs and nuts with over the counter bsw bolts and ground the heads down to the required dimensions, all good so far!
 

karl530

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Thats a very nice old bit of arn! The cutter head is very similar to a cast iron 6" jointer I have with no makers decals on it. I have been wondering whether to press ahead with a refurb on it as I am nervous about the clam shell design.
Do you have any torque specs for the studs? Also would you be able to post a few pics on the knives and the cutter plates please?
heritage steam have post and pre-war whitworth nuts if that is of any help to you..

Cheers Karl
 

CHJ

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tool613":360k88hx said:
Mark

A little more information
these are British Standard Whitworth (BSW) 5/8".

the nuts are lathes cut with rounded tops flat bottoms. I have seen this type for slotted knifes on square head moulder over here.

jack

This might be a guide :
Source
torque.jpg
 

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tool613

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thanks Karl and Chas

Matty a mate down under found this and i quote


L.S.Barker1970":7eeake18 said:
Jack, back from a break so I had a little time to search through a copy of Wadkin's Tools and Accessories Catalog.
Found this page with some steel specifications and sizes, Wadkin also go on to state on another page that the tensile strength of this specially selected heat treated alloy steel should be around 60 tons, oohee !

tool613":7eeake18 said:
the forged steel plate type cutterblock is really a great head with its skewed knifes and is also able to take moulding knifes. I did get the tool(spanner) for the head bolts that has short handle ,so i would think 60 to 100lbs is all that is need on the nuts.
any care to comment?
Jack
Jack did some tests tightening up bolts by hand and then checking them over with a torque wrench, got them to around 80 to 90 lbs and I was happy with that, any more and there is a chance of shortening the nut and bolts life more quickly, stretching treads etc.
I would always tighten by hand to gain a good "Feel" for the tension applied, I would not just rely on a torque wrench alone, even one of those posh Warren and Brown numbers,
I like to still check by hand and spanner, thats just me..
My saw Doctor Friend definitely had a big box of those nuts with T head bolts, he's back on board in February if you can hang on till then Jack, pretty sure they were the right thread too.

Melbourne Matty.
Chas what is that metal with a tensile strength of 60 tons? 4140 maybe?

got the head cleaned up and ready to store until i am ready to work the other parts.I wanted to clean the rust and look at the bearing any way. here are some pics of the workings of the wadkin plate/clam head

here you can see that the cutter block is tapered on the sides the jointer knifes plates/clam go.



the wadkin head has keyed jacking/ knife adjustment screws and you don't need the plates to to hold the knifes from slipping like the Oliver head. the stud hole is through the head and the stud bottom on a small rim on the top edge.


a set of Wadkin spent knifes(no life left) with the key slot at the back on the blade. only half of the knifes are useful in this design. the blade are about 1 1/2" wide when new. You are still able to get theses from wadkin.


i have found regular knifes placed in front of the key screw. this is very dangerous with this type head.

you have a 12" section for moulding knifes in the jointer head and it does not upset the straight knifes.


the hard wood side of the head is thinner than the softwood side of the head by about 5/8" this is what skews the knife.




hope you enjoyed the view of the Wadkin Plate type head.



jack
 

CHJ

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tool613":3rft9u0n said:
......Chas what is that metal with a tensile strength of 60 tons? 4140 maybe?.....
Depends on whether you are talking raw or H & T.
4140 has tensile (post hardening and tempering, oil quench) between say 110 and 257,000 lbs.
4130 (water quenched ) 118- 236

But even 1030 (water quenched) and tempered at 200C or so should give 120.000 lbs tensile. but is only about 80,000 as rolled

4140 normalised at 870C 148,000 lb/in/2
Annealed at 816C 95,000

Would not want to go anywhere near those figures though on a bolt whos thread form integrity was not known, yield strength is not that much higher.
 

tool613

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I short up date on the studs and bolt on the old wadkin head. Matty a good mate of mine from down under found me old wadkin stock at his saw doctors. The saw man was going out of business and selling everything off. Matty spotted the wadkin OEM parts and pick them up for me at a great price i might add. So it the studs next and this cutter block will be in top shape.

Thanks Matty my fellow Wadkin machine Lover.With the help from my friends the Wadkin temple is getting closer to being a realty.

jack
 

Tony Spear

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All this talk about tightening torque!

Whenever I asked him how much to tighten anything my Grandad always said "Until just before it breaks"! :shock: :shock:
 

tool613

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Tony Spear":1xeskur2 said:
Whenever I asked him how much to tighten anything my Grandad always said "Until just before it breaks"!
Tony

I think the perveous owner beleved the same thing. :mrgreen: One thing is for sure when your working over a 26" cutter block with plates that hold the knifes in place is you like to know the condistion the nuts and studs are in when your push that board through:D That being said a 5/8" bolt can hold at lot. There is no replacement for just big. Seeing the head is 70 years old it has held up well to the abuse.


jack
 

Tom MasterCraftsman

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Hi Jack Very Nice, been watching you rebuild of the rm looks great, I'm currently rebuilding my Wilson bandsaw, the level of engerneering on these old English machines is amazing, I'm just waiting for delivery of my Wadkin rm rescued from the scrapyard in full working order it's just missing the gard but the weights still there, can't wait.
 
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