Wadkin PK blade pin missing?

[Andymaker]

I recently bought a Wadkin PK and am keen to get it earning its keep asap. Ive noticed there is a hole in each plate on each arbour plate/washer but there is no sign of a locking pin anywhere.

Are there any PK owners out there that have any idea if these saws originally came with a blade locking pin?

 

[wallace]

Hi Andy, dont worry I've had a few pk's and never had any problems with not having the pin. I think one time it may become a concern is if you have a brake that stopped your blade really quickly. If your really worried I think I have one in my stash you can have.

 

[dickm]

If your really worried I think I have one in my stash you can have.

.... and if it's in Wallace's stash, it will be polished up "like a new pin"

 

[Andymaker]

Hi Walace, if i could have the pin that would be excellent. There is a brake fitted to the saw, I teporarily wired everything up yeasterday and the the brake stops the blade in about 3 seconds. Ive never seen a machine stop so quick. Also the nut was a little grimmy and when trying to retighten it the motor was just turning before the blade was firmly gripped. How much would you like for the pin?
Also any recomendations for where to buy new blades?

 

[wallace]

Dick I have a drawer full of wadkin bits and bobs, for some reason theres always bits left over after a restoration :shock:
Andy I would maybe think about turning that brake down a bit, 3 secs is rather quick at stopping an 18" blade. I'm not sure how those brakes work but I bet it will be making the windings work hard. You gotta remember if its an early pk the insulation could be 70 years old.
If you pm me your address I will get it posted.
With regard to blades I've never bought an 18" one I've just picked them up at auctions and got them sharpened or a new tooth welded on. Advanced machinery will have them or cutting solutions seems to have a good name

 

[Vann]

Hi AndyM, welcome to the PK club.

Mine also came without a pin. I threaded a piece of 1/2" rod and cut it to length, and I've had the blade drilled to take it. Of course I don't have my PK running yet , so I don't know if it worth the trouble (I've also bough 3 more blades - second-hand - and haven't had them drilled yet either).

I'd love to see a few pictures of your machine (including the tag). Wallace has a thread over on the Canadian forum which helps identify features of the PK as it evolved. https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/f ... enerations

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Andymaker]

Hi Vann, threading a peice of rod was my next option but wallace has kindly put a spare one in the post for me. Unfortunatly I cant seem to upload any photos to the forum (I cant find a way to make the file sizes small enough) the late reads Machine: pk1380 test:39842 which from wallaces website I make a 1952. FYI pending photos Its a dark blue colour has both ajustment wheels on the front.

I had it wired up only recently and started it up for the first time and put a brand new blade on it which I bought from Atkinson and Walker in Sheffield.Its got a few problems I'd like to sort out as well as I possiblely can. I want this machine to be as acurate as possible. The main things ill need to sort out are...

*The bearings in the sliding table. A couple of the bearings are definatly gone. The table seems to bump into a few of them instead of gliding over them. I asume the way to adjust the height of these bearings is by turning the large slot screws ajusts them via a cam?

*Today I mesured the run-out in the arbour flange which seems to be 0.08mm and is causing a significat amout of blade wobble. Not sure how to fix this without taking it to someone with a lathe. The motor bearings seem to have a slight amout of play and sound pretty dry so I'll grease them up and see if that helps at all.

If I can sort the above out theres quite a lot of other work Id like to do too such as making a long cross cut fence with a flip stop; making some kind of double mitre and remidie the play in the rip fence.

 

[Vann]

...the late reads Machine: pk1380 test:39842 which from wallaces website I make a 1952.

I saw that one on ePay earlier this year.

The serial number looks to be overstamped. I read it as PK 1390 (looks like the 9 is over the top of an 8 ).

*The bearings in the sliding table. A couple of the bearings are definatly gone. The table seems to bump into a few of them instead of gliding over them. I asume the way to adjust the height of these bearings is by turning the large slot screws ajusts them via a cam?...

I had one bearing on the table missing completely, along with the eccentric bolt. Replacement bearings weren't too costly (about $NZ20 each IIRC). I know a guy with a machine shop who made me a replacement eccentric bolt. He's very good - and expensive (cost me $NZ150, ~£75).

Yes the bearings are adjusted by turning the bolt, which is eccentric - effectively a cam. The bolt is locked by the nut, but also by a large grub screw from underneath. I was worried that the grub screws would scour the bolt shafts (if you look carefully you can see scour marks on the left-hand bolt in the pictures above). I attempted to hacksaw and file some brass slugs to go between the screw and the bolt...

... but in the end an Aussie on the Canadian forum turned up some finer slugs for me.

There are also 6 rollers controlling sideways play (no fancy roller bearings here!).

About this time I was offered a 1928, 1 ton, 30" bandsaw (with 1 day to remove it before the building was demolished) and the PK had to go into storage (where it still is). So I still haven't set up the sliding table. My intention was to set up the four outer rollers so that the table was level with the fixed table, and then adjust the intermediate rollers until they firmly touched (but not lifted) the sliding table.

Note: My PK is an earlier model, and detail may differ - especially with regard to the grub screws.

Cheers, Vann.
Disclaimer: No Photobuckets were harmed in the posting of pictures in this post.

 

[Andymaker]

Vann, the one you saw on ebay is the one i bought! I asumed it was a 9 on the tag and was corrected to an8 at the factory.
Thanks for posting pictures of the stripped down sliding table bearings. They will be very usecul when i come to line the bearings up in mine. I think your suggestion of lineing them up with the fixed table first is a good way to approach the task.

 

[wallace]

The motor is correct. Have the checked to see how true the spindle is, if that's fine you could maybe true up the flange in situ. If you can feel play in the bearings when you lift the spindle with your hand then that will be probably be your run out issue. I think the bearings are a hard find. Ideally you want the bearings cleaned and repacked but that means taking the table off.
I recently renewed the bearings on my slider with original skf's. my pk is an oddball with a longer slider. It takes 12 bearings. My local bearing place wanted £11 a bearing luckily I found them on ebay for £5 each. You could try giving the bearings a good clean, they don't move fast so I doubt they will be worn out just full of crud. It takes a while to adjust the slider to the main table. The easiest way is like Vann said. You can take the two metal strips at the bottom of the bearings off, it makes it easier
If your fence has slop it will be wear in the gib on base. on early pk's the gib was part of the casting but it got changed to a removeable gib attached with alan bolts. You might be ok just flipping it over.
Heres a clip on what new bearings for the pk sound like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVMXpfJDLW0

 

[Andymaker]

First of all, the arbour flange pin arrived in the post today so thankyou very much wallace!

I cheked the spindle and am glad to say there is no run out in it. There is 0.05mm play in it though. So I think it sounds like I need new bearings.

I was considering trying to true up the flange by clamping a diomond stone in position and running the saw. I saw a clip on youtube of a guy truing his with a router and a grinding bit in it. Im not hugely confident about the acuracy of either of these ideas but im guessing that as long as I dont take to much metal off then I can still get it done by a machinist. I think this is what i should do before i get into sorting any other aspects of the machine. I cant use a saw with this much run out/blade wobble.

Thanks for the video too that guy has some pretty detailed stuff in his videos and its good to see someone going to such lengths for an machine.

Vann, I took one of the sliding table bearings out and its the same as yours with a little grub screw underneath.

One thing I am still a little confused about on my saw are the two bolts protruding from the bottom of the rise/fall gearbox...

 

[Andymaker]

... they seem to stop me from lowering the 18" blade enough to put a sacrificial table liner thiny on and then break through with the saw running for zero clearance. These bolts look very clean and new, does anyone have these on their PK? And can you lower an 18" blade enough?

 

[wallace]

Them bolts aren't original, you should be able to lower the blade below the lip that holds the sacrificial wood strip. If your doing the bearings I'd hold off trueing up the flange until they've been replaced. It would probably be easier trueing the flange with the motor running on a bench, then you could rig something up easier.

 

[Vann]

...If your doing the bearings I'd hold off trueing up the flange until they've been replaced...

+1

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Andymaker]

Yes, my thoughts exactly re, trueing flange post bearing replacment. Im begining to wonder how the flange could have become misaligned and that maybe a stray offcut could have jammed the blade and forced the flange on the wonk. Of so perhaps a carfull tap could straighten it up. Hmmmm

I really want to take those bolts out of the Rise/fall mech' and find out why on earth they were put there. Could one of you do me a small favor and take a pic of how the gearbox should look?

 

[wallace]

Andy I had a look at mine and the correct bolts should be countersunk alan bolts. Also I thought the bottom of your gearbox looked strange I didn't recall there being any shaft protruding out of the bottom. I checked mine and you can see the end of the shaft but it does not stick out. Does the rise and fall work? I have seen 2 pk's with the pin that holds the gear snapped.

 

[Andymaker]

I managed to find some bareings for the motor... All £360 worth.
I decided before i handed over my long number it would be worth. a second through check of the machine.
I pumped the bearings with grease, now the play is imperceptible, its almost like it disapeared.

I pulled the arbour flange off and cheked it with the dial imdicator on my planer bed. This revealed all 0.08mm of runout was in this componant only. After close inpection i found a ridge on the flange where it contacts the bearings and filed this down up till it lay flat on the planer. Prublem solved finger crossed.

I then put the blade on and checked it for run out, then flipped it and checked it again. This showed that the blade was not flat so off it went back to the manufacturer this morning who have assured me they will fix it.

I removed the two bolts from the rise/fall and found this now permits the blade to desend below the table. I am now convinced they were there to give the blade a bit more height. The shaft protruding from the bottom of the gear box i am unsure about as of yet. The rise and fall mechanism works fine but at the top of its travel it comes off the shaft if i try to raise too far so perhps it is lower down than it should be.