Vintage shoulder plane . . . advice needed

[mikey78]

Hello Guys,
I often like buying old tools more than new ones,
I'm very satisfied with my Stanley planes and have a good number of them.
At the moment I don't have any shoulder plane and would like buying one .
I've been looking at the stanley shoulder planes (N° 90, 92 and 93) and tried to find some
informations about their quality, what I found is that many owners are not very satisfied with the machining of the tool, being very often the sides out of square to the sole.
Because is a shoulder plane and because I can not check the plane by myself with a square before buying this is a big issue.
Stanley shoulder planes are nickel plated so if I want to preserve the collecting value lapping the sides to make them true is not a good option ...
I was wondering if other plane makers took their production to better quality levels :?:
Recently I'm looking at the Preston shoulder planes, to my unexperienced eyes they look well made or at least they look better than Stanley production ... What is your opinion ?
Does any of you guys have some feedback about Preston production ?
If I go for Preston what are the canches to find a plane with sides square to the sole ?
Is there any other brand I should look for when considering vintage shoulder planes ?
Looking forward to hearing from you !!!

 

[custard]

It's not just the sides that need to be precise relative to the sole, the frog (the piece the blade rests on) cannot have any twist relative to the sole. If a shoulder plane doesn't meet these conditions then it's a paper weight.

Unless I felt like a gamble I wouldn't buy a shoulder plane without the option of returning it. If you aim to produce quality work then your shoulder plane needs to be an order of magnitude more accurately machined than your bench planes.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I've had a #90 for decades, literally - my second plane purchase after a #5, and I've even still got its original cardboard box somewhere. It's been very handy for all sorts of odd jobs, but it's really not suitable for trimming tenon shoulders, because the nose is far too short. I used it mostly as a "pocket" block plane, and for doing DIY things like trimming door openings.

I was very unimpressed by the build quality and design of the new Sweetheart #92 (I did a review donks ago), but the iron is really good steel (to me, anyway). I don't think older versions are quite as good in that department, BUT they have a grub screw for setting the mouth opening, which is invaluable and missing on the new model (why?). The #90 was made in the 1970s or very early 1980s, and its sides are square to the sole, although as I said, of limited use as a shoulder plane. the #92 and #93 must have been machined in the same way, so can't be very different - the only practical difference is the nose/top casting and the width of the #93. Irons are still available, I think, for 90/92, although I've not worn mine away yet!

I don't doubt what you say, but I'm surprised any escaped the factory out of square - it's rather a basic requirement for a shoulder plane!

You might consider Record (the Preston designs): I've recently been given a Record #73 (a Christmas present last year). It has heft and it's well made and the iron takes a good edge. It's really nice!

 

[Racers]

I have a thing about shoulder planes I have a few and make them.
You need length and weight for a good shoulder plane, to me the stanleys look small light and difficult to hold, a tall plane is easer to grip and you can see its at 90 deg more easily.
The Record/Preston 73 is a cracking plane, but don't over look the infill ones most are good, a slight risk if you buy one from eBay etc.

This one is 200mm long with a Corian infill.

New Shoulder plane by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

Pete

 

[mikey78]

Thankyou guys for sharing your experience !!!
When it comes to shoulder planes I just don't have enough experience to make up my mind .
Thankyou Eric for pointing the Record 73 like a good option for my needings .
Can you suggest any place where I can find good information about this plane so that I can evaluate what I am looking at ?

 

[mikey78]

HI Pete,
I see you agree with Eric about the quality of the Record 73,
so this could be the one I'd buy when I make up my mind

About Preston planes : I'm not looking at the infill ones, I like owning beautifull tools but
I don't overspend just for having something to show off ... I think that price in a tool must be closely related to the quality ...
If buying a Preston shoulder plane what model would you go for ? And why ?

I see that on ebay there are some 1368 Preston planes, are those any good ?
Furthermore I see some that have the two letters "EP" engraved into the cherries,
some others don't, this is a bit confusing to me ....
Is there any web source where I can see a kind of type study so that if I ever buy I know what I buy ?
Sorry for making so many questions but hope this thread could be helpfull also for others 8)

 

[richarddownunder]

Hi Mikey. I managed to obtain a Record 75. Its really nice to use. mortice-chisels-and-a-record-shoulder-plane-t108342.html

Also have a Clifton 420. I think I prefer the wider Record for most purposes but the Clifton also works well (but doesn't fit the 'vintage' category).

Pete - I like the look of that!! I need to make one!

Cheers
Richard

 

[Racers]

Thanks Richard.

A bit of a WIP here of another one but the method is same.

cut-some-metal-with-up-updated-pics-t29992.html

Pete

 

[richarddownunder]

Yep, I saw that when you posted it, its a great tutorial and I'm keen - maybe after my current guitar project. I rather like the curves on your post above. I see you use a type of plastic for the infill. Haven't heard of that type before but I wonder how G10 would work as I have some for knife making. Horible stuff to cut but its very stable and tough.

Cheers
Richard

 

[Racers]

G10 should work well, Corian is plastic and talc so its heavy and you need weight in a shoulder plane.
My Corian came from eBay it was a sink cut out.

Pete

 

[mikey78]

Hello Richard, thanks for posting your shoulder plane
(I think you made a typeing error because your plane is a 073 ) !!!

I've made some research in the last few hours and have come up with a bit more information about the subject .
Record produced 5 types of improved shoulder rabbet planes : 041, 042, 072, 073, 074, same lenght (more or less) different width, last three have also a very distinctive feature =P~ an adjustable mouth !!! These shoulder planes follow closely the Preston line n°1368 (closely related to the 041), n°1368A (042), n°1368B (072), n°1368C (073), n°1368D (74).
Looks like the most appreciated was the n°073, that was produced untill 1994
( for the 072 and 073 production did not survive WWII).

 

[mikey78]

I think that an adjustable mouth is quite a good feature to have, what do you guys think ?
And if I go for this feature I'd probably choose the 073 with is 1-1/4" iron,
or should I go for a bigger (074) or smaller (072) iron ?
From a functional point of view the Preston 1368C is equal to the 073 but it sells for almost two times the price,
do you think the machining is so much better to justify the difference in price ?

 

[Eric The Viking]

The #73 is as big as I'd ever want in this context. In fact something smaller would probably also be helpful.

One of the big advantages of the Preston design, incidentally (as adopted by Record, but not Stanley), is the ease with which you can whip out the iron, hone it, and get back to work. I doubt it'll go back exactly as before (and anyway you are changing the iron's length, albeit by a tiny amount), but it is fast and you get quickly back in the general area of how it was first set. It's a faff with the #90 and worse on my Sweetheart #92 as I've had to add shims made of beer can and these fall out!

 

[richarddownunder]

Hello Richard, thanks for posting your shoulder plane
(I think you made a typeing error because your plane is a 073 ) !!!


Quite right, senior moment I suspect. Anyway, its nice, I have only had chance to use it a few time but it works very well . I just adjusted the mouth quite fine and have left it at that but it probably is a good feature. It is so well made you can barely see the joint on the adjustable portion.

Cheers
Richard