Veritas Bevel Setter Reading Problem

[whiteant]

Hi,

I was trying to find what degree a certain angle was( I know now it was 22.5) transferring it with a Sliding Bevel to the Veritas Bevel Setter.

The makers claim this process is possible, but I couldn't see any marking to match the angle in question.

There was a marking for 22.5 degrees but it looks more like 70 to me.

Am I missing something obvious here?
Can someone who owns one tell me the correct way to set up a Sliding Bevel for say 20 degrees?

Thanks for reading

 

[Joe]

I can't lay my hands on mine right now as it's in my workshop, but isn't it simply a question of putting the stock of the sliding bevel on the other edge of the bevel setter?

Joel

 

[Joe]

Or, is the problem this - if I remember correctly, when your sliding bevel is at 90 degrees the bevel setter shows 0 degrees. So 5 degrees on the setter means the "interior" angle of the sliding bevel is 85 degrees, and 77.5 degrees on the setter (though I don't think it goes up that high does it?) would be an angle of 22.5 degrees on the sliding bevel (again measured from the inside face of the bevel stock). The device is designed to set and measure bevels, which are measured as deviations from right angles are they not?

Any help?

Joel

 

[whiteant]

http://www.leevalley.com/html/05n6601ie.pdf

The link above is the instruction sheet, which is the same as what is on the back of the packaging.


It claims on the instruction sheet:
" This bevel setter lets you set specific angles(from 0 degree to 60 degrees in 1/2 degree increments) on a sliding bevel or a workpiece".

I cannot figure out how to transfer a 20 degree setting from the Bevel Setter to my sliding bevel.

Joe, as you have pointed out 0 degrees is = to 90 degree on the bevel setter.
In order to get 30 degree from the bevel setter to my sliding bevel. I would have to use the 60 degree setting.
But since 60 degrees is the highest angle available I cant get the 1-29 degrees, using this method.

Still confused and waiting for enlightenment.

 

[Tom K]

Erm dont you line it up with the mark?

http://www.axminster.co.uk/showimage.as ... vel+Setter

Maybe Mr Lee will swing by :lol:

I've been staring at those instructions for some time and its as clear as mud.
The problem seems to be to which side you reference from.
If using a protractor you just turn 90 to the most appropriate position.
I think the angles are correct for cross cuts or frames arent they?

 

[Joe]

The only way I can think of that might allow you to set an angle between the blade and stock of the bevel to less than 30 degrees would be to put the stock against the top edge of the setter. Not sure how satisfactory that would be. The point is, I think, that what Veritas are referring to as a bevel angle between 0 and 60 degrees is one that is measured from a starting point of 90 degrees, i.e. the square edge of a board.

Joel

 

[whiteant]

Tom, If I set up 20 degrees on the setter, then put my sliding bevel against its right side, the angle transferred is actually 70 degrees.

This is because Veritas seems to have used the top of the setter as 0 degrees and marked off to 60 degrees from there.
If the side was used for 0 degrees then I could use it as you say.

Joe,I cant use the top or bottom to set up from.
Perhaps there is some knack to it I just don't see.

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/bl ... 9c3f7.aspx

This chap thinks "I'm happy to say that the Veritas Bevel Setter is more like a spouse than a girlfriend"

After about 50 years marriage I would say, with the amount of frustration I have experienced thus far!

 

[Tom K]

It appears the device only gives complementary angles.
Do you have a chop saw? Maybe its just not the tool you were looking for.
I don't have this device just a cheapo angle setting protractor from Maplin.

 

[Rob Lee]

Hi -

The bevel setter is used to set angles from 0-60 degrees, but in reference to a 90 degree corner. For example - adding a 7 degree bevel to an edge - one actually forms an included 97 degree angle. It really sets complementary angles.

If you want to set a bevel to 20 degrees (I assume you mean an included angle of 160 degrees on your bevel) - all you have to do is use a square such that the fence of the bevel is at 90 degrees to the edge of the bevel setter (instead of parallel), and set the bevel setter fence to 20 degrees... thus taking the complement of the complement...

Clear as mud still, I suppose, but no handy diagram at hand....

Cheers -

Rob

 

[whiteant]

In my post I said I was trying to measure a particular angle, which I found out later(on a plastic protractor) was 22.5 degrees.

With my Sliding Bevel set to that angle, I placed the stock against the rule(Bevel Setter) as stated in the 2nd paragraph with reference to Diagram 1 on the instruction card.
There was/is no matching angle measurement.

Rob, that instruction card is very misleading and needs a rewrite.
Your explanation about using a square seems to overcomplicate to be honest.

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

 

[Rob Lee]

In my post I said I was trying to measure a particular angle, which I found out later(on a plastic protractor) was 22.5 degrees.

With my Sliding Bevel set to that angle, I placed the stock against the rule(Bevel Setter) as stated in the 2nd paragraph with reference to Diagram 1 on the instruction card.
There was/is no matching angle measurement.

Rob, that instruction card is very misleading and needs a rewrite.
Your explanation about using a square seems to overcomplicate to be honest.

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

Hi -

This is really not the tool to do what you want to do - it's not intended to replace a protractor - it's not a measuring instrument.

Where it excels is in setting angles on a bevel, within a range commonly used for joinery. The fence lets you use the entire tool as a marking tool. The widely spaced angle markings (either edge of the setter) make it fast, easy, and accurate to set a bevel (more accurately than with a protractor, I might add) to the range of angles commonly used for joinery, and for machine/jig set-up.

I understand that using a square to produce a complement is a bit of a kludge - but it is a straightforward way to make the setter do what you want it to do, despite being outside of the designed range of the tool.

It does what it was designed to do very well.... things it wasn't designed to do - not so much....

Cheers -

Rob

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Here is a short tutorial on setting 20 degrees .. or any degree you fancy. It is easy-peazy when you understand the principle behind this tool.

What you have to understand is that it deals with complementary angles. See http://www.mathleague.com/help/geometry/angles.htm#complementaryangles

Let's take a basic example: Set a sliding bevel for 90 degrees. Well, calculate the complementary angle as 90-0=90 degrees

Here is the 90 degree setting ..

Set the sliding bevel ..

.. and you can check this, thus ..

By George! It works!

Here another oldie but goldie - 30 degrees:

90-30=60 degrees

And the ever-popular 45 degrees:

90-45=45 degrees

Now for the Big One! 20 degrees!!!

90-20=70 degrees

Oh, there's no 70 degrees!? OK, use your noggin. This is a complementary angle, so you can do it this way ...

First set 20 degrees ...

Then use a square for the 90 degrees ...

And .. Hey Presto ...

QED

Regards from Perth

Derek

I posted this a short while ago on WoodWork UK. But some of you don't go there, hence the repeat.

 

[whiteant]

Wow! Derek,that's "Innovation in tools" to the nth degree!

I thought the last word had been uttered on this and found out from your post there was a parallel discussion on another board.
That made interesting reading, I had thought I was alone in my struggle.
I find that even you were misled by one of its claimed functions.

"I purchased the BS thinking that it would directly replace my plastic protractor. It was only when I first used it that I realised that it was different. I should have been disappointed but I have since found that it is indeed MUCH more accurate than the plastic protractor, easier to use (inspite of requiring an extra step) and, in the long run, far quicker to set up.

Regards from Perth

Derek"

I didn't buy this to replace or function as a protractor.
I bought it because of the claim on the instruction sheet

" For basic angle measurement, place a sliding bevel's stock against the rule, align its blade with the angle and read the angle"

With the Bevel Setters fence set at that angle I thought I would have a constant reference to work from. Sliding bevels can get knocked out of position easily.

From reading your stuff posted around the net it seems you have quite a bit of association with Veritas over the years.
I suppose that could account for your Don Quixote like charge to their defence.

Regards from Earth