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Colarris

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Hi all.
I've been woodworking on and off for a couple of years now but there's one thing I still haven't mastered and that's sawing straight(!!!) Its really frustrating and I just cant seem to get it. Its especially shows when trying to cut tenons. Can anyone offer any magic tips that don't include power tools?
 
Hi,

Welcome

Get a good saw (not one with black teeth) and practise, you could also try japanese saws, they cut on the pull stroke and some people find them easier to use.

Pete
 
Ah, I wonder if that is part of the problem as I've always pulled the saw back against the wood(?)
 
If your used to pulling back against the wood, I'd recommend a Japanese dozuki (x-cut), these are very easy to use and get a straight cut. Matthew at Workshop heaven has an excellent one at a good price that I can recommend.
 
Racers":3dufes9w said:
Get a good saw (not one with black teeth)...
What's wrong with black teeth (on a handsaw)?
I've got a couple of the black Bahco I use for rough sizng and the one with the finer teeth leaves a reasonable finish.
Not up to Veritas standard though obviously.
 
Draw a square line on the measurment, then cut on the OUTSIDE of it. Keep the saw at 90 degrees to the job and hey presto; all you have to do is shoot.
 
It's in the way that you stand...nothing magic. Stand slightly sideways to the front of the bench so that your saw and arm form one vertical 'plane' and eyes should be over the top of the back. Use light strokes (let the saw do the work) and use all the blade. Simples - Rob
 
cambournepete":210dnwas said:
What's wrong with black teeth (on a handsaw)?
I've got a couple of the black Bahco I use for rough sizing and the one with the finer teeth leaves a reasonable finish.

I wouldn't say wrong. Just be aware that you can not resharpen them and can not rip with them becaus they are all crosscut.

Cheers Pedder
 
Colarris":27z4fblf said:
Hi all.
I've been woodworking on and off for a couple of years now but there's one thing I still haven't mastered and that's sawing straight(!!!) Its really frustrating and I just cant seem to get it. Its especially shows when trying to cut tenons. Can anyone offer any magic tips that don't include power tools?

Quick tip: always cut to two lines and never to just one.

Associated tip: add a "fence" to guide your saw.


Tenon cheeks ....

AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_m456f4d84.jpg


AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_m60ec130d.jpg


Tenon shoulders ....

AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_63661e59.jpg


Dovetails ....

TheVeritas20ppiDovetailSaw_html_m654f2955.jpg


Regards from Perth

Derek
 
Racers":3e1jq929 said:
Hi,

Welcome

Get a good saw (not one with black teeth) and practise, you could also try japanese saws, they cut on the pull stroke and some people find them easier to use.

Pete

Hey so I CAN blame my tools!! :D
Thanks I'll check them out. Thanks to you as well Derek, nice images. :)
 
Here's an excerpt from the notes that we send out with English backsaws, there may be something in here that brings about a 'eureka moment' for you.

Make sure that your timber is firmly supported with as little material as possible protruding above the vice. You should be able to finish your cut without moving the timber and not risk cutting into the top of the vice, but any more than that simply causes excess vibration.

Starting the cut is something that many people struggle with until they get used to it. English backsaws have a heavy spine along the back of the blade, the weight of which provides the maximum pressure needed for an efficient cut. Your job is to control how much of that pressure is applied, so in the vertical plane you are working between no downward pressure (full acceleration) and the point where you are taking the whole weight of the saw (tickover). To start the cut, rest the tip of the saw flat on the timber and taking almost all of its weight, gently ease it forwards for one full stroke. Lift the saw out of the cut and move back to the starting position before taking a second light stroke running in the kerf of the first one, then start to ease the saw back and forth. Gently allow the wood to take progressively more of the saw's weight as the cut becomes established. You have about ten strokes (depending on the amount of set), as you release the weight of the back, to steer the kerf straight.

Steering
To do this, observe the reflection of the timber in the side of the blade, if your timber is horizontal it should appear to carry on straight through, if it appears to be bending up or down then your blade is not plumb. All the steering is done with the thumb and forefinger of your sawing hand. This is what people are referring to when they talk about sawing 'by eye', because the reflection magnifies any error by a factor of two it is incredibly accurate and the vast majority of people only need to understand it to be able to do it really well.

Once the cut is established you can let the full weight of the saw rest on the timber and just push it to and fro, the blade will be steered by its own kerf, so as long as you started straight and the saw is tuned correctly it will just carry on cutting in a straight line. Be careful not to apply any downward pressure, you should be able to hold the handle between thumb and forefinger and slide the saw back and forth, 'let the tool do the work' is the adage that apprentices have had drummed into them for centuries. The next thing you need to think about is where the cut will stop, I like to position a mirror behind the bench so that I can see both the front and the back of the timber without having to lean over the job and have a peek every now and again. As you approach the finish, slow right down and start to take the weight of the saw in your hand again. Better to creep up slowly on your mark than charge up to it at full throttle.

English backsaws are designed to cut vertically, the mass of the back is instrumental to the whole way that they function. So if you are sawing a line of dovetails for example, always cant the wood over to the appropriate angle so that all of your cuts are vertical and then reposition the timber before cutting the opposite sides. With the right tool and a little practice, you will find that they are delightfully accurate precision instruments, and you will soon be confident splitting a knife line with one side of the blade.
 
Hi Matthew...

All the years that I have been sawing by hand I have been using the "eye" subliminally but I have never looked for a reflection consciously.

To do this, observe the reflection of the timber in the side of the blade, if your timber is horizontal it should appear to carry on straight through, if it appears to be bending up or down then your blade is not plumb. All the steering is done with the thumb and forefinger of your sawing hand. This is what people are referring to when they talk about sawing 'by eye', because the reflection magnifies any error by a factor of two it is incredibly accurate and the vast majority of people only need to understand it to be able to do it really well.

That must be what I do but I didn't know it....

I will be looking for that reflection now....

A Eureka moment indeed!

Talk about old dogs and new tricks! DOH!

:D :oops:

Jim
 
hi

all you need to to do is first make sure you have a well set and sharpened saw remember let you saw do the work for you , if your doing tenon for example set your work piece low down in the vice meaning you don't want the tenon 8 - 9 " above the vice (vibration) .

Now pick up saw place your fore finger out in a straight line in line with the brass back to the saw tilt head slightly to the right and view teeth along the right side of saw as it follow the line of the marked tenon using slow sweeping strokes (full length ) not short sharp strokes if you see the blade diverting of either way adjust stanch ( the way you stand) in either direction to bring saw back in line with your markings. this places you in control of your saw ,not the saw in control of you, keep practicing . hc :D
 
Matthew,
I am glad to see your advice on starting a cut. So many people start by drawing the saw back form the far edge and the saw then bounces - and often off line.

You might mention the hand pressure needed to hold the saw. I find an extremely light pressure is need on a good backsaw - a really limp handshake sort of thing.
 
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