CHJ
Established Member
This thread on the 'Woodturning on line' forum has a couple of interesting videos that show another approach worth a try.
Using a wide forged gouge for bowls
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Bob Chapman
Established Member
Yes the videos are interesting, but read the comment from Richard which follows. He warns against using what looks like a roughing gouge on bowls, and I totally agree with him. I've never broken a tang, but I've bent one to around 90 degrees, it happened in an instant and was very, very scary. Fortunately, as well as eye protection I was wearing brown trousers. :wink:
Bob
Bob
A
Anonymous
Guest
Chas, you'll see that I've posted, on the other forum, a suggestion to show the tool and its cutting edge...
It's horrifying to think that a beginner might guess that the tool used is a roughing gouge and try it out :shock:
The sage advice is 'Don't use a roughing gouge on a bowl' hands up those who found out why the hard way
It's horrifying to think that a beginner might guess that the tool used is a roughing gouge and try it out :shock:
The sage advice is 'Don't use a roughing gouge on a bowl' hands up those who found out why the hard way
Russell
Established Member
I have 3 or 4 roughing gouge bought back by customers who have bent them. Invariably they have been using them on the outside of bowls where the encounter end grain which is harder to cut especially with such a wide cutting end. they always bend at the tang and I have had one snap completely I wont mention the brand but I was shocked.
CHJ
Established Member
oldsoke":izc3aez3 said:
That's the bit that I was confused about, the thread talks about "the trailing edge is cutting the deepest, thereby deriving support from where the tool's been to guide where it's going." and I can't get a mental picture of the profile, at first I thought it was ground more like a scraper.
oldsoke":izc3aez3 said:
That is possibly one of the biggests dangers of home grown video sites, such as this and YouTube where material is publicly available without background support.
Do you have any finite details of the cutting profiles for old style gouges Graham? I must admit that some I have seen being used in Germany look not dissimilar to the one being used but had something like a 75-80 deg bevel and the wings ground back, I presume to reduce catching risk.
A
Anonymous
Guest
CHJ":3i06hbfx said:
Sorry, no finite details Chas but you'll see that some UK producers have 'continental' gouges in their range...
Paul.J
Established Member
So what your saying here is that to use a roughing gouge,or similar tool on a bowl is dangerous.
If so i must admit that i have used a RG on some of the bowls i've done recently,only on the outside though to rough shape them.
Is this wrong :?:
Paul.J.
If so i must admit that i have used a RG on some of the bowls i've done recently,only on the outside though to rough shape them.
Is this wrong :?:
Paul.J.
Normally the rule is that you never use a roughing gouge on bowl work, or face plate work. Not that it won't cut, but it is not designed to take the stresses of working too far over the rest, and if you do get a dig-in it will be one BIG one. It would mean that at the least the work comes off, or at the worst the gouge does a orbit of the workshop, hopefully not getting near you on its travels. :-k
Paul.J
Established Member
TEP Wrote
but it is not designed to take the stresses of working too far over the rest, and if you do get a dig-in it will be one BIG one.
When i was doing this the rest was as close to the work as i could get it.
Is this the point Micheal Mouse is trying to make.
Also as some of you know,i tend to keep my speed down on the lathe.Would this help to prevent a bad dig in whilst using the RG.
Wouldn't use it on the inside though.
Paul.J.
but it is not designed to take the stresses of working too far over the rest, and if you do get a dig-in it will be one BIG one.
When i was doing this the rest was as close to the work as i could get it.
Is this the point Micheal Mouse is trying to make.
Also as some of you know,i tend to keep my speed down on the lathe.Would this help to prevent a bad dig in whilst using the RG.
Wouldn't use it on the inside though.
Paul.J.
Hi Paul.
I was only making the point that most turners will say as I have. Yet in our hobby there are so many ways of doing the same job that you can also say if it works for you, carry on.
To prove a similar point I have watched a guy using a side axe to turn a spindle, yet you wouldn't normally do it yourself.
My personal opinion is that I wouldn't use a roughing gouge on any face plate work. Just in case.
I was only making the point that most turners will say as I have. Yet in our hobby there are so many ways of doing the same job that you can also say if it works for you, carry on.
To prove a similar point I have watched a guy using a side axe to turn a spindle, yet you wouldn't normally do it yourself.
My personal opinion is that I wouldn't use a roughing gouge on any face plate work. Just in case.
Paul.J
Established Member
Thanks Tam.
It looks like one bad habit i will have to get out of.
Just happened by accident really that i was doing this.
It seemed to be cutting well so i carried on.
Paul.J.
It looks like one bad habit i will have to get out of.
Just happened by accident really that i was doing this.
It seemed to be cutting well so i carried on.
Paul.J.
Hans
Established Member
Chas wrote:
I have not personally seen them used on bowls, but I am sure a lot of German (and some old Dutch) woodturners still use the Carl Heidtmann 'schwere Drechslerroehren 7 mm stark" (=Heavy gouges 7 mm strong) for bowlturning.
The continental gouges I bought from Ashley Iles have no relation to this type of gouge at all. They are very light and shallow, a good specialist tool for spindle work.
Hans
I have not personally seen them used on bowls, but I am sure a lot of German (and some old Dutch) woodturners still use the Carl Heidtmann 'schwere Drechslerroehren 7 mm stark" (=Heavy gouges 7 mm strong) for bowlturning.
The continental gouges I bought from Ashley Iles have no relation to this type of gouge at all. They are very light and shallow, a good specialist tool for spindle work.
Hans
A
Anonymous
Guest
Any pix Hans?
A
Anonymous
Guest
TEP wrote:
I hear this said a lot but I don't really agree with it. I see many computer programmers who do things the hard way; because their way works they continue doing it. Just because it works for them doesn't mean it's good or easy.
I know computer programming so I'm able to constructively criticise. Unfortunately I don't know turning well enough yet to be able to point out the bad habits people pick up. What I can say though is just because it works doesn't mean you should do it!
Dave
I hear this said a lot but I don't really agree with it. I see many computer programmers who do things the hard way; because their way works they continue doing it. Just because it works for them doesn't mean it's good or easy.
I know computer programming so I'm able to constructively criticise. Unfortunately I don't know turning well enough yet to be able to point out the bad habits people pick up. What I can say though is just because it works doesn't mean you should do it!
Dave
A
Anonymous
Guest
If it works for you and it's safe it's a good-un!
...well, it is until you find something better :lol:
The time to worry is when you stop looking and learning ... :shock:
I have an open mind... and a closed pocket :lol:
...well, it is until you find something better :lol:
The time to worry is when you stop looking and learning ... :shock:
I have an open mind... and a closed pocket :lol:
Paul.J
Established Member
Trouble is though Graham,was that i didn't realise how dangerous it could be :shock:
Paul.J.
Paul.J.
Well said Graham!
As for being dangerous Paul, nothing in woodturning is really that dangerous if you know what you are doing, and what to expect, but as with most things this does only come with a lot of experience.
As has already been said many times, beware "the dreaded learning curve", or the mistakes that teach you what you can and cannot do with your tools.
Good luck with your turning, keep trying different things. Just be careful. :-k
As for being dangerous Paul, nothing in woodturning is really that dangerous if you know what you are doing, and what to expect, but as with most things this does only come with a lot of experience.
As has already been said many times, beware "the dreaded learning curve", or the mistakes that teach you what you can and cannot do with your tools.
Good luck with your turning, keep trying different things. Just be careful. :-k
CHJ
Established Member
A
Anonymous
Guest
Paul.J":2w7550h2 said:
Odds are that you would have done :lol: sooner or later :lol:
santiniuk
Established Member
Hi all,
Rather than start a new thread I found this one which relate very much to my dilemma.
Just when I start to feel like I'm making progress, after more reading I'm not sure if I really am
Please excuse what may be basic questions. I'm after clarification.
To date I have done quite a bit of in between centre work practising making spindles etc. I start off with a square section and use my roughing gouge to get to a cylinder. I then use my spindle gouge to make profiles and parting off tool. I'm still nervous of the skew but have used it a little.
I have never used my scraper or bowl gouge when doing this work.
I'm hoping these tools are correct.
I have also experimented making small bowl / platters using 'roundish' blanks I have cut from flat boards. Typical sizes about 120mm * 60mm.
I have a scroll chuck that has a 'screw' extra that fits between the jaws. I drill a hole in my 'roundish' blank and mount it to the jaws like this.
At first the blank is obviously not running true, I have been bringing the tail stock in and using the centre drive to support the 'unsupported' end of the blank.
I then have been using my rouging out gouge to make the profile round and run true. Is this bad ?
I then push the tailstock out of the way and use my parting tool and scraper to create a recess. I then turn the blank around and mount this recess on my chuck and expand the jaws.
Again, I have been using my spindle gouge to profile the outside shape of the blank and them used my bowl gouge to hollow out and profile the inside.
The question here is should the bowl gouge only be used ?
Yesterday a friend dropped off some offcuts he had from a cherry tree. Size approx 200mm * 150mm.
For this I cut a square end on the bandsaw and thought I would try my faceplate. (Not used much).
So... I fixed the piece to the faceplate and to add support I brought in the tailstock. Am I correct in thinking that this isn't 'between centres' and is classed as faceplate work even though I'm using the tailstock as extra support.
This was a typical strange profile limb and included bark. Again I started off very slowly and used the roughing out gouge to remove the bark and continued until the bark was off and the profile was round.
Once round I slide the tailstock away and the used the spindle gouge on the outside for profiling and then used the bowl gouge to do the inside. (I have used a scraped for the insides also).
Should I only be using the bowl gouge for the outside ?
Apologies if these are obvious questions, I'm on that learning curve where I'm questioning everything !
Many thanks.
Shaun
Rather than start a new thread I found this one which relate very much to my dilemma.
Just when I start to feel like I'm making progress, after more reading I'm not sure if I really am
Please excuse what may be basic questions. I'm after clarification.
To date I have done quite a bit of in between centre work practising making spindles etc. I start off with a square section and use my roughing gouge to get to a cylinder. I then use my spindle gouge to make profiles and parting off tool. I'm still nervous of the skew but have used it a little.
I have never used my scraper or bowl gouge when doing this work.
I'm hoping these tools are correct.
I have also experimented making small bowl / platters using 'roundish' blanks I have cut from flat boards. Typical sizes about 120mm * 60mm.
I have a scroll chuck that has a 'screw' extra that fits between the jaws. I drill a hole in my 'roundish' blank and mount it to the jaws like this.
At first the blank is obviously not running true, I have been bringing the tail stock in and using the centre drive to support the 'unsupported' end of the blank.
I then have been using my rouging out gouge to make the profile round and run true.
Is this bad ?I then push the tailstock out of the way and use my parting tool and scraper to create a recess. I then turn the blank around and mount this recess on my chuck and expand the jaws.
Again, I have been using my spindle gouge to profile the outside shape of the blank and them used my bowl gouge to hollow out and profile the inside.
The question here is should the bowl gouge only be used ?
Yesterday a friend dropped off some offcuts he had from a cherry tree. Size approx 200mm * 150mm.
For this I cut a square end on the bandsaw and thought I would try my faceplate. (Not used much).
So... I fixed the piece to the faceplate and to add support I brought in the tailstock. Am I correct in thinking that this isn't 'between centres' and is classed as faceplate work even though I'm using the tailstock as extra support.
This was a typical strange profile limb and included bark. Again I started off very slowly and used the roughing out gouge to remove the bark and continued until the bark was off and the profile was round.
Once round I slide the tailstock away and the used the spindle gouge on the outside for profiling and then used the bowl gouge to do the inside. (I have used a scraped for the insides also).
Should I only be using the bowl gouge for the outside ?
Apologies if these are obvious questions, I'm on that learning curve where I'm questioning everything !
Many thanks.
Shaun
