bugbear
Established Member
David C":2oiv5bgt said:
Ahem. "Wearing", I assume you meant.
BugBear (helping future searches)
Use of dowels when joining edges.
- Thread starter Andy Kev.
- Start date
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Ahem. "Wearing", I assume you meant.
BugBear (helping future searches)
David C
In Memorium
Oh dear!
Thank you.
David
Thank you.
David
CStanford":3qr4nppi said:
Have you used any of those? The Rockler one looks nice and simple. I take it one makes the wooden components oneself?
Yes, I've used the Plano system and the Rockler type, though mine are from Woodcraft, and ones like the Damston and Carbatec clamps though the latter not in my own shop. The Rockler/Woodcraft style units have been around for years. You do make the wooden clamp bars yourself. These take a little getting used to but they work. Titebond Extend, liquid hide glue, or another longer open-time glue is your friend when using these clamps.
With regular clamps:
I've never had much luck hammering unruly boards when they are in clamps. This tends to make the clamps release (at least the one nearest the end being hammered) unless you have a huge amount of pressure on them which a quality glue-up should not require. C-clamps (G-cramps) alone or with battens work much better than a hammer to bring board ends into alignment. Nothing disturbs the rhythm of a shop more than a guy hammering on a glue up, even if you're the only guy in the shop. It doesn't look good, nor sound good IMO.
If a board is a little bowed in the middle then put the glue up on the *flat* floor and have a helper stand on the panel while you tighten down or otherwise weigh it down with something else. Of course, you cannot hammer middle of the run bow out of a board or you would have done so before gluing up in the first place.
Your best results would come from the Plano or similar system. These systems really shine with very long glue ups like tabletops and wooden countertops which have come back into vogue at least in the U.S.
Gluing up a 12' long countertop into a bit of twist with $1,800 worth of black walnut will ruin your day. One likes to remove as much risk from this sort of task as possible.
With regular clamps:
I've never had much luck hammering unruly boards when they are in clamps. This tends to make the clamps release (at least the one nearest the end being hammered) unless you have a huge amount of pressure on them which a quality glue-up should not require. C-clamps (G-cramps) alone or with battens work much better than a hammer to bring board ends into alignment. Nothing disturbs the rhythm of a shop more than a guy hammering on a glue up, even if you're the only guy in the shop. It doesn't look good, nor sound good IMO.
If a board is a little bowed in the middle then put the glue up on the *flat* floor and have a helper stand on the panel while you tighten down or otherwise weigh it down with something else. Of course, you cannot hammer middle of the run bow out of a board or you would have done so before gluing up in the first place.
Your best results would come from the Plano or similar system. These systems really shine with very long glue ups like tabletops and wooden countertops which have come back into vogue at least in the U.S.
Gluing up a 12' long countertop into a bit of twist with $1,800 worth of black walnut will ruin your day. One likes to remove as much risk from this sort of task as possible.
David C
In Memorium
We have done a lot of hammering over the years!
The big hammer is certainly noisy, but surfaces should be alligned when only gentle cramping pressure has been applied. The edge surfaces will not slide once full force is applied.
If edges are shot hollow in length clamps may be tightened one at a time, starting with the ends and finishing with the centre. This is a powerful technique for long table tops.
I have never noticed the heavyweight T bar clamps we use loosen from tapping the surface.
David
The big hammer is certainly noisy, but surfaces should be alligned when only gentle cramping pressure has been applied. The edge surfaces will not slide once full force is applied.
If edges are shot hollow in length clamps may be tightened one at a time, starting with the ends and finishing with the centre. This is a powerful technique for long table tops.
I have never noticed the heavyweight T bar clamps we use loosen from tapping the surface.
David
You really should treat yourself to a system that applies 4-way pressure all at once and this solution is scalable at a pretty low initial investment. In the end, probably no more expensive than a room full of quality t-bar sash cramps and much more suited to task.
Barring this, just batten down the ends with c-clamps and reusable battens.
Barring this, just batten down the ends with c-clamps and reusable battens.
CStanford":3wulkn4s said:
I followed up your links and then looked around a bit and found this:
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodworkin ... ota+dk4way
It looks very similar to the Rockler system. Out of stock at the moment but I'll keep an eye out for it.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
just been on the job - gluing some 1" PAR boards together. PAR as usual is somewhat propellor shaped and impossible to align. Planing can make it worse.David C":uyptkv4w said:
Doug says a biscuit jointer (which I have not got) is the answer.
But the big hammer did it - Dave is spot on above.
NB sliding stops after a few goes anyway if the things aren't too far out, but then it's the hammer and a block of wood. A final touch was G clamps across the joints at the ends. I hope it doesn't all spring apart.
Andy Kev.":15iy2te6 said:
These sorts of systems in various formats have been good sellers for years all the way up to large factory hydraulic units. There's a price point for every budget
You can use them on the ends only along with your regular bar or pipe clamps in the middle spaced according to panel size. You don't have to spend a whole lot of money for the effect you're looking for.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
Hi Charles
I've not considered this type of clamping system - not just because they are very expensive in Oz (Carba-tec is my local store), but because some of the larger pieces I make, such as table tops and cabinet panels, can be an uneven thickness (on the inside or underside where they are not seen). I would imagine that they would be difficult to clamp up in these systems, which would be more use with boards evenly thicknessed.
Indeed, I am surprised that you use these clamps since, being entirely handtool orientated, you would also use similar methods to minimise unnecessary planing?
Regards from Perth
Derek
I've not considered this type of clamping system - not just because they are very expensive in Oz (Carba-tec is my local store), but because some of the larger pieces I make, such as table tops and cabinet panels, can be an uneven thickness (on the inside or underside where they are not seen). I would imagine that they would be difficult to clamp up in these systems, which would be more use with boards evenly thicknessed.
Indeed, I am surprised that you use these clamps since, being entirely handtool orientated, you would also use similar methods to minimise unnecessary planing?
Regards from Perth
Derek
They average the differences in thickness evenly to the front and back of the panel, which I find helpful.
I do avoid planing each board to a perfectly consistent thickness in favor of treating the entire panel as if it were one board after the glue sets. These systems DO NOT require that each board be perfectly consistent as to thickness. They can't be wildly different, but they don't have to be perfect by any stretch. One certainly will want to skim plane boards for color and grain match and direction (assuming rough sawn stock) before making the panel, and this bit of work needs to be done with an eye toward not making any inconsistencies worse and perhaps remediating an area or two that came off the sawmill saw a little higher than the rest of the board (each board).
I do avoid planing each board to a perfectly consistent thickness in favor of treating the entire panel as if it were one board after the glue sets. These systems DO NOT require that each board be perfectly consistent as to thickness. They can't be wildly different, but they don't have to be perfect by any stretch. One certainly will want to skim plane boards for color and grain match and direction (assuming rough sawn stock) before making the panel, and this bit of work needs to be done with an eye toward not making any inconsistencies worse and perhaps remediating an area or two that came off the sawmill saw a little higher than the rest of the board (each board).
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