Total failure: drill-powered lathe

[Seb Palmer]

I decided to try and make a drill-powered lathe, in the manner of Izzy Swan, as seen on his YouTube channel. I thought I'd share my misadventures, in the hope that folk here might help point me in the direction of some solutions to the myriad issues that caused me grief.

I made the 'two towers', pictured above, from some old off-cuts of oak parquet (that was what I was told it was when I bought it), and had a pig of a time trying to get it square. In the end I gave up. None of my tools are very good: e.g, I just got a cheap chopsaw (£20), off Gumtree, 'cause my Rage mitre-saw died on me (I have another post here on that topic!). Try as I might, I can't get it truly square in either direction. It's a helluva lot better than it was when I bought it, but it just ain't square.

My self-built table saw, ditto. My bandsaw, similar but different issues. And my only possibly decent bit of kit - Kity 636 planer thicknesser - is still not set up (need to work out pulley ratios and add a wheel/get the motor attached, etc.). In short, nothing is ever truly flat or square. It's a bloomin' pain.

Anyway, I decided what the heck and persevered with making these two components, fitting M8 threaded rod, nuts, and skateboard bearings. Izzy Swan's plans involve bending the tangs on T-nuts 180°. Whatever I tried, this simply snapped them off.

So, as pictured above, I drilled out the threads on one T-nut, and glued it back to back - using 5-min epoxy - with one that had all the tangs broken off it. I had high hopes for this solution to the problem of breaking tangs. Next issue: my Hitachi corded drill has the wrong sort of chuck, so I had to buy an adaptor, so as to have a normal old-fashioned one, with which to grasp the threaded rod in the head-stock.

Having set it all up, with a load of clamps, for a test, I found that there's a lot of play in the whole assemblage, as all the parts have slightly different diameters. This, coupled with the off-square-ness of everything, means the whole thing judders and wobbles a ridiculous amount.

My butchery! Partly done with chisels, partly with a rasp...

Perhaps the whole disaster I had today was also due to picking the wrong wood? I tried turning some rosewood. Very dense, hard stuff. I tried several chisels (I have no proper wood-turning tools), and all they did was knock the chuck loose, undo the epoxy glue (so my cherished pronged T-nut assemblage fell apart). Drilling the holes for the two lathe rods was easy enough. So I sharpened the chisels. No improvement.

I've made a second pronged nut, but that to was quickly rent asunder, so I'm regluing them both. And I'll try again with a softer wood tomorrow. I'll also get all my chisels razor sharp. But I found the whole thing, which has been two days work - Izzy Swan's video suggests it's a simple 10-minute build! - quite depressing.

I wish I just had the money to buy some decent tools!

 

[sunnybob]

Youre trying to run before you can walk. you cant do finished projects if you cant even cut a square end.
Spend time on the chop saw, make it accurate. What is not square?
If the blade is tight, then it should cut square. If the cut is slightly off, look at the bolts that hold the motor to the body. Loosen one and put a shim of ordinary paper under it and re tighten. has that made the angle better or worse? work around the motor securing bolts with paper shims untill you get a square cut.

Dont try any projects untill you have that machine cutting square.
Only once that is working properly move onto the next machine. shim the table saw the same way. if its a lot out, use metal washers.

Whats wrong with the bandsaw? These can be pigs to set up, but most of them can be made to work very well.

Have you heard of the old computer saying "garbage in equals garbage out"?

You CAN NOT make accurate items with wonky tools.

 

[custard]

Full credit to you Seb for giving it a go, you're indomitable!

=D>

 

[Seb Palmer]

Thanks custard

 

[Lons]

Good on you for giving it a go Seb but you can buy an old B&D lathe attachment for around £40 or £50, they come up regularly on the bay.
I bought one when I was a teenager and eventually converted with an old induction motor a pair of plummer blocks and a threaded 5/8" shaft. Produced some half decent items with that setup.

Or... buy a couple of said plummer blocks, even the cheap ones would be much better than the stuff you're using.

Bob

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Seb, keep your eyes open for old carbon steel turning tools - you can often pick them up for peanuts. They don't hold their edge as long as HSS, that's the downside - but they were all people used for centuries.

 

[Seb Palmer]

Thanks for the feedback & suggestions guys. I'll explore.

@ Sunnybob: I'll reply in a bit more detail, re my tools, when I get a moment. Obviously you're quite right, tool set up is of paramount importance. And believe me, I've tried!

 

[ED65]

Seb, are you doing this to be able to do turning or more for the challenge of building the lathe itself? If it's the turned stuff that's most important, do you know what you want to produce yet? Reason I ask is if it's just very small things for now, knobs and just a little longer than that, you can get away with no lathe at all; you can chuck the wood directly into the drill and work on it successfully (q.v. Christian Becksvoort's articles on this).

Also do you have a drill stand? Turning can be done fairly reasonably with the work vertical, the hardest part is probably getting your head around doing everything at 90° to normal!

 

[Seb Palmer]

Hi Ed65, both, to be honest: I just like... er, no, make that I love making stuff, and tools and jigs almost as much as other 'finished' things.

But yes, I have numerous specific objects I want to make/turn, from more ordinary stuff, like bowls, to less typical things, like my own bespoke drumsticks.

 

[Seb Palmer]

oh yes, and I do have drill stand, albeit not a massively good one: it's a Silverline 262212 350W 250mm (10”)

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Also do you have a drill stand? Turning can be done fairly reasonably with the work vertical, the hardest part is probably getting your head around doing everything at 90° to normal!

Or, if is is a small drill stand, turn it on it's side. This was my first "lathe"

Making sure all the bits are well clamped down, of course ! The live centre is a cut down flat drill bit, the dead centre a pointy bolt from a bit of scrap flatpack furniture bolted with repair washers through the hole in the base of the drill stand.

With a slightly more refined tool rest, it was good enough for me to fix up this clock:

the centre finial is original, the two outer ones are copies made with the drill 'lathe'

 

[Seb Palmer]

Cool! Great stuff. I may give that a try.

 

[Seb Palmer]

@ SunnyBob, thanks for the feedback. I took a bit of time to write this response.

Chop-saws:

I got my Rage sliding compound miter saw accurate, in terms of a 90° vertical stop-point. Less reliably so in terms of bevelled cuts. The left/right adjustment is factory 'notched', innacurately, so clicks into place, but not into accurate positions. Anyway, with constant measuring, I was able to cut accurately enough with that to make usable furniture and other projects. But that saw's dead now.

My new saw is compound but not sliding, with a less powerful motor and smaller blade. It's much harder to set up, on account of having to partially disassemble it (remove the blade guard, etc.) in order to get anything up against the blade to measure the accuracy of angles.

You're quite right, I must take the time to set it up as best I can. But I have already done so: a couple of hours on the day I bought. And, like I said above, it's vastly better than it was when I bought it. But hey-ho, more work is required, clearly.

Band Saws

As with my chop saws, I spent time setting it up: I've repaired a broken power switch, replacing the tires on both wheels, stripped and cleaned the whole thing, bought two new blades (although only one actually fits!), and set it up by adjusting pretty much everything - guides, guards, wheel angles, etc. - until it's running as straight and true as I can get it.

For the kind of light cutting this saw is intended for, it's fine. But when I need/want to cut harder woods, and/or bigger deeper/wider cuts, first I don't have the right blade type yet, and secondly if I do try with what I have, the blade moves out of position. So for that I either need a suitable blade, or, more likely, a bigger more powerful band saw. And since there's very little chance I'll be in a financial position to buy one any time soon, I'll be building one, a la Matthias Wandel, at some point.

Table Saw:

My DIY table-saw is of the 'quick and dirty' type. For most of what I do it's fine. But it's no good for prepping lumber, as the blade's too small to cut the necessary depths required.

-----
The answer to all my troubles?

I think getting my planer-thicknesser working will be the best thing I can do in the immediate short term, as I can get my lumber uniform before taking it to my other tools. At present I'm using those other tools, e.g. the table saw and chop saw, to try and get the lumber ready.

I also think that Izzy Swan's 10 minute lathe idea is a bit misleading, unless you're a woodworking ninja already. It has too much room for error. Another guy (I forget who) has posted about how he overcame some of the tolerance/play issues. When I try again I'll probably use his ideas.

 

[ED65]

But yes, I have numerous specific objects I want to make/turn, from more ordinary stuff, like bowls...

Well unless you want to make wee tiny bowls I don't think you'd want to try doing much of that without a proper lathe of some sort. Even the commercial drill-based lathe stands apparently struggle doing faceplate turning of any decent size, with excessive vibration often reported and the motor can easily be stalled out too.

...like my own bespoke drumsticks.

<Mystic Meg> I see a build of a steady rest in your future </Mystic Meg>

I also think that Izzy Swan's 10 minute lathe idea is a bit misleading, unless you're a woodworking ninja already.

Agreed. But I think it should be taken as a given that virtually all project times stated by experienced woodworkers aren't realistic for the average person; unless they have basically the same kit even doubling the time might not be enough.

Separate from that I expect there's some fibbing going on as well, an ever-present thing in cooking instruction. This is apparently widespread in modern instruction for amateurs – woodworking, cooking, sewing, knitting – balancing the aspirational with the realistic, for modern people with shorter attention spans and less follow-through than previous generations.

I do understand the motivation, and if someone was upfront about a project like a drill lathe really taking more like a couple of hours, or a full afternoon working at a lazy pace, fewer people are going to set out to make it. But I'd bet that far fewer of those who do take on the project would run out of steam and not complete them.

 

[ED65]

Also do you have a drill stand? Turning can be done fairly reasonably with the work vertical, the hardest part is probably getting your head around doing everything at 90° to normal!

Or, if is is a small drill stand, turn it on it's side. This was my first "lathe"

Oh my God I never thought of that. Brilliant!

With a slightly more refined tool rest, it was good enough for me to fix up this clock:

the centre finial is original, the two outer ones are copies made with the drill 'lathe'

=D> =D> =D>

 

[Seb Palmer]

Ed65, I'll look out for a drill stand going cheap (or pref free: I get loads of stuff* off Freecycle, although very little of it for workshop use). I have a bench press drill. Might work on its side, but not as well as what you're suggesting, I shouldn't have thought.

I will be trying again with the self-built lathe at some point. But I think my next priority has to be getting the planer thicknesser going. And in the meantime I might also try persevering with this one, and try turning some softer woods with sharper tools...

* got a working freezer yesterday!

 

[graduate_owner]

OK, this may be easy enough for me to say, seeing as I have a union graduate and a viceroy educator, BUT -
I really don't think you are going to enjoy wood turning unless you are prepared to get at least some proper kit.
I wanted to try turning, and was really over the moon when my dad found me a second hand black and decker lathe attachment. I bought a set of 3 Marples turning tools ( spindle gouge, parting tool and 1/2" skew) and away to go. Well what a disappointment. I had no sharpening system so made sawdust, not shavings. But the main thing was the noise from the drill, and the blast of cooling air in the face.
Then I had the chance of an old Myford ML8. Plus I bought a grindstone. What a difference. I was enjoying turning at last.
Basically what I am suggesting is - go for a good quality used lathe, such as a Myford, Record/ Coronet etc. These are not trendy, and are dated by today's standards, but are quality lathes and can be bought for sensible prices - I have seem Myfords go for £300 - £400, but sometimes you can get them for under £100 provided you don't mind adding your own motor, stand, and perhaps doing without outboard turning.
Now £100 may be out of reach for you, but I think botching around with a home made arrangement is just going to be so frustrating.
And as for turning tools, well I still use my old carbon steel ones. In fact I only have two hss tools, a bowl gouge and a square scraper. Yes, hss is nicer, keeps an edge longer etc, but if you are on a budget then carbon steel will be fine. But do get a sharpening system sorted out, whichever type you can afford.
Then, if you really take to turning, you can always move up the ladder in due course.

My 2p worth.

K

 

[graduate_owner]

You might also be able to pick up an old Arundel or Tyme lathe. These are no longer made and the spindle threads are unusual, but for starting off they could be fine. They were both well respected lathes in their day.
One make I would avoid as a waste of money is Clarke. I have read reports from people who have found them OK but most reports I have seen have classed them as real rubbish. You may find the same lathes but in different colours and badges, but the same rubbish. If you don't know what they look like, go online and order a catalogue from Machine Mart. You will find them there, and know the design to avoid.
Avoid cheap turning tools too - a brand new set of 8 or so for £25 is going to be trash. Better to spend the money on second hand tools, and just get the basic essentials.

Another 2p worth

K

 

[TomGW]

+1 for the obscure / obsolete brands. Keep a close eye on gumtree. I bought an Elu lathe, complete with a multi-chuck and a few tools for just £65. It's an excellent machine, now passed on to a friend who is still getting a lot of satisfaction from it.