tool sharpening ...help please

[Keithie]

Just returned to woodturning as a 'new' hobby after many years of separation from it (used to have a coronet cl3) and have bought a shop display Record DML320 with the extension bed for £550 (its not a Powermatic, but then they are almost £3k) and 5 Robert Sorby gouges (roughing, 3/8 spindle, 3/8 bowl, 1/8 parting and 3/8 parting). I've also got an axminster sk100 chuck and a couple of jaws. Enough to turn all the projects on my list (mini Christmas trees up to circular topped wooden stools)

I have forgotten pretty much everything I knew (cant even find the centres on pre-cut pieces very well!) and I never knew how or how often to sharpen tools ..I tended to avoid it till I couldnt turn anything and then let a grinding wheel eat a few inches of the tool before it was even close to usuable.

So I think I need to learn how to sharpen tools well, but dont fancy spending £300++ on a deluxe sharpening kit.

Please could experienced and novice turners let me know what you choose to do (what kit, how often etc) ...does anyone sharpen by eye/without support/without an angle gauge on a aluminium oxide wheel or is that just silly?

thanks in advance

 

[Dalboy]

If you have a few woodworking skills then have a go at making your own sharpening guides. Have a look at THIS ONE I made the little adjustable table and it helped get the angles when sharpening.

 

[stewart]

What Dalboy said.....although I have Sorby proedge bought second-hand, though that was still a little over £200. Sharpening should be little and often, grinding should be a once only job to get the shape you want.

 

[Keithie]

Thanks ...not sure if my skills are up to that, but the implications seem clear : support and angle control are necessary

I understand the little & often (and grind vs sharpen) ideas ... but quantifying the 'often' is a bit hazy ... guess it depends on the wood as well as how long tool is used. Once every 30mins for oak and less often for beech/ash and less again for softwood? Or do you just get a sense of when the tool is losing its edge by experience ?

 

[nev]

Look at JPT's setup midway down this page
sharpening-turning-tools-options-for-the-beginner-t29556.html

A 6 or 8 inch grinder with a white wheel (record), a few suitably shaped bits of wood and a couple of bolts will create your rest (as in Keith Rowley woodturning, a foundation course ) and away you go.

 

[Keithie]

thanks .. I've got an old 1/2hp milbro grinder/polisher which I can bolt to a base and add the Rowley rest (I've got the excellent Rowley book ...and the Richard Raffan). My alu oxide 6" wheel is a white one and I've got a diamond dressing tool ...so that sounds like the lowest cost way forward ...then I just need to decide between a cbn wheel upgrade (and my existing waterstones to finish) or going for the pro edge. price vs convenience.
Having read a lot more over the last hour or so, I cant find anyone who says anything bad (that would be relevant to my low skill level) about the SorbyProEdge ...apart from price of course. Yandles is only an hour away from me so maybe they'll have a sale one day ....

 

[Robbo3]

Get yourself a copy of the beginners bible - Woodturning:-A-Foundation-Course by Keith Rowley
Edit : oops, you've already got it.

The problem tools are bowl & spindle gouges with the sides ground (fingernail). Most other tools can be done using a flat platform or resting on your fingers with some form of support underneath (often the tiny supplied tool rest).

As to how often, it's a judgement call. With really hard or abrasive timbers you may only get one or two cuts before having to return to the grinder.

Another possibility is using carbide tipped tools which only need an occasional dressing with a diamond stone
Glen Teagle - http://www.ukwoodcraftandcarbidechisels.co.uk/

 

[Sawyer]

If you have a few woodworking skills then have a go at making your own sharpening guides. Have a look at THIS ONE I made the little adjustable table and it helped get the angles when sharpening.

Not wanting to spend shed loads of money, I made the Brian Clifford jig. The tilting rest is good and still in use. The gouge attachment (on the left of the picture) is similar to various commercially made jigs, which I'd wondered about buying. I'm glad I saved my money, because I got fed up with it very quickly and changed to freehand sharpening on the tilting rest, which I set to the angle of the gouge. I have sharper tools as result, because once the technique is mastered, a spindle or bowl gouge can be honed up with the merest touch on the wheel, in about 30 seconds. As there is no messing about with jigs, the process is easy enough to repeat every few minutes.

I use a 6'' dry grinder with an Axminster pink grinding wheel. http://www.axminster.co.uk/pink-grinding-wheels-ax19566

 

[Jacob]

Simplest and cheapest sharpening set up would be a sanding disc on the outboard end - just stuck to a ply disc, or a bought one with velcro etc.
A simple tool rest (horizontal wooden batten across fixed somehow, close to centre line of disc) and you can do it all by eye it's not difficult.
Jigs aren't necessary and in the end it's quicker and easier without them. The bevels on chisels are a lot easier to shape than the actual turning of bowls, spindles, knobs and stuff, so if you can do one you can do the other.

PS don't bother with "the problem tools" you don't need them. The old books are best; Percy Blandford "Woodturning" etc. They kept it simple.

PPS for finding centres use an ordinary marking gauge - guess the middle and work it from positions around the circumference. The arcs will produce a little polygon (or a cross if you hit dead centre first time). Then you can guess the middle , or gauge again set closer to the centre.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Except that when you're paying £50 a tool and a jig can easily make it last two or three times longer it makes sense to use a jig.

 

[Jacob]

Except that when you're paying £50 a tool and a jig can easily make it last two or three times longer it makes sense to use a jig.

Opposite IMHO! You can usually remove a lot less material to get a good edge, without a jig, once you've got the knack, as long as you avoid the "problem" tools.

 

[nev]

Gentlemen, before it deteriorates into a jig/ no jig money/ no money my dads bigger than your dad sharpening thread please stop.

 

[woodfarmer]

You might want to invest in something like a devil stone for truing and keeping your grinding wheel sharp. If it isn't it will rub more and tend to overheat the tools as well as not giving a clean cutting edge.
Grind lightly and only for a short time. simple wipe of the grindstone then look at the edge.
A simple jig will help you grind at the same angle more consistently, thus saving valuable tool steel. But have separate jigs that are permanently set to their angles. simple wooden ramps at various angles will do. Even if you are a few degrees off it will only really matter the first time you use it.

When cutting gets difficult, you start losing true round of the work piece or make more dust are all signs the tool need sharpening. Little and often is the rule, If it gets too hot to touch, stop grinding and let it air cool.

 

[Keithie]

Thanks again everyone who replied. I guess my past sharpening style of simply holding (without any support) my tool tip on the sharpening wheel at what looked about the right angle is a bit lame. I shall try to make myself a simple adjustable angle support ...doesnt look too far outside my ability.

cheers
Keith

 

[Jacob]

I guess my past sharpening style of simply holding (without any support) my tool tip on the sharpening wheel at what looked about the right angle is a bit lame. ...

Not really. You get better at it very quickly!
Helps if there's a tool rest at least, but doesn't need to be adjustable - you adjust the angle of the tool instead, which saves a lot of fiddling about..

 

[lurker]

When i started I (badly) copied the jigs Chaz made I've never needed anything else.
Can someone link them?

Good point about dressing the wheel.........a major "failing" many do not understand.
You are not "flattening" the face you are exposing fresh abrasive and removing contaminates

I know two "names" in the turning world and they grind very frequently, mid job in many cases.
Little and often.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I picked up at a car boot a monster devil stone for 50p - no one knew what it was.

 

[Jacob]

....
I know two "names" in the turning world and they grind very frequently, mid job in many cases.
Little and often.

Yes to little and often, which makes disc on out-board end a very handy solution.

 

[CHJ]

.....I know two "names" in the turning world and they grind very frequently, mid job in many cases.
Little and often.

The more you turn the more this becomes the norm, the more you do it the more you may migrate to hand sharpening and still maintain the bevel angles you are gradually becoming familiar with to the point you naturally pick one gouge over another off the rack.

But unless you are turning all day every day and earning a living I personally think time is better spent turning the wood than practicing how to sharpen by hand alone.

A simple pivot jig in the pattern of the Tormek/Sorby clone that you can set the tool protrusion up on accurately every time with little fuss is in my experience still the simplest way to achieve minimum steel removal and consistent bevel form or adjustment and for me anyway even after ten years plus spinning odd bits of wood is the method I rely on for touching up of spindle and bowl gouge edges, and as mentioned by Lurker on some tasks this can be as frequent as every surface completion or at times every one or two passes.

I find nine times out of ten poor surface finish or tool bounce occurrences means I am being lazy and not bothering to re-sharpen.
It's a lesson I personally seem to need to relearn on a regular basis, as is often said "if you think it needs re-sharpening then you should have done so several cuts ago"

When i started I (badly) copied the jigs Chaz made I've never needed anything else.
Can someone link them?

Under projects
If you follow the various links in the associated threads most of the saga of my learning curve regarding sharpening is exposed.
All that has really come out of it is that time and practice results in the bulk of the fiddling about disappears and you end up with a routine that becomes second nature and you tackle each tool in the quickest and simplest way for you and get on with the turning.

 

[woodpig]

For around £100 this is hard to beat.

http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/w447-delu ... ing-system