Tool Marks

[G S Haydon]

Working on quite a few sash windows recently and found some nice evidence, of what I'm pretty sure would be the pitsaw. I guess it could be something else but I think it unlikely. I like finding stuff like this where it shows hidden areas were fine to be left "off the saw". The marks are on the back of the pulley stiles, indicated with the arrow. When working totally by hand, spending time on hidden areas is not a luxury that can be afforded. I also assumed that the sash window in the photo was quite likely to be a vernacular piece, made in rural workshop. I can't date it for sure but the poster displayed in the building was from 1834.

I have worked on earlier sash windows, the earliest I know of were from the demolished Stowe House https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stowe,_Kilkhampton which were used in the Guildhall in South Molton. What was remarkable about the windows from Stowe was how refined but at the same time how crude they were. In as much as the joinery was executed well but certain refinements had not been adopted.

I was unable to tell if PMV 11 was used on any of the work :lol:

 

[AndyT]

Fascinating stuff. Can you see any places where the angle of the marks changes? If so, that would definitely indicate pit sawn, I believe. If the marks are all at right angles to the piece, it could have been cut on a reciprocating mechanical saw, with six or more parallel blades cutting many boards at once from the one log. I think these stayed in use in small workshops until quite late on - there's definitely one in the Slate Museum in N Wales which I think was still in use in the 20th century (on timber, not slate).

Is the board oak? The maker doesn't seem too fussed by a bit of break-out behind the pulleys, does he.

 

[G S Haydon]

Hi Andy

It was very tricky to get a clear photo, I feel pretty confident it was a hand powered saw of some kind. I think there was enough variation to indicate, I'll paw through my other images and see if I can find a better one. There are other areas on the building that are likely very late 19th century and show a uniform finish but with a rotary planing mark.

Good spot on the timber, it was oak and quite wild grain too. It kind of fits with my guess of a vernacular craftsman, ties in with the brutal pulley work too. The pulleys on the windows from Stowe house were superbly made with a boxwood wheel and what I think was an oak body. Those windows were made made from Euro Redwood.

 

[D_W]

I was unable to tell if PMV 11 was used on any of the work :lol:

In those days, I heard they only had PMV 10 (I can't find the dead horse smiley!).

Were reciprocating mills popular there (oops, see Andy already asked)? Sawing looks irregular, and a pitsaw would be more portable, so I'd bet you're right.

 

[AndyT]

This is the sort of saw I was thinking of. It's from "The Practical Carpenter and Joiner Illustrated" which is not dated, but looks late 1930s to me.

The saws would need to be in pretty poor condition to make a surface as rough as Grahame has found, so I agree that they probably were pit sawn.

 

[D_W]

This is the sort of saw I was thinking of. It's from "The Practical Carpenter and Joiner Illustrated" which is not dated, but looks late 1930s to me.



The saws would need to be in pretty poor condition to make a surface as rough as Grahame has found, so I agree that they probably were pit sawn.

Me, too, thinking of that type. Simple, low power and no need to have someone who can tension a plate.

 

[G S Haydon]

Smashing image Andy, it's the latest of it's kind I've seen. I enjoy the videos of the Dutch windmill racksaws on youtube, they are remarkable.

Come, come David, PMV 9, we all know 10 was around the 1900's

 

[AndyT]

I just checked the British Library catalogue, which can often supply a date where there is none printed in the book. They say it's 1944 which makes this a very long -lived design. (I think it dates back to the early middle ages.)

 

[G S Haydon]

That or we are slow to change .