To Walnut or not to walnut?

[Tarkin]

Grammatical errors aside, that is my question. :roll:

I'm planning to make a chest-come-coffee-table. I'd ideally like it to be pretty dark, but still have some nice figuring. Now, for whatever reason, I have a thing about using stain. I'm not sure where my prejudice came from but I don't really like it. So I was thinking about using American Black Walnut for my chest. Then I went and drew it up and realised I need over 4cuft of Walnut to make it. As I understand Black Walnut is going for about £50 a cuft ex VAT at the moment (correct?), so the cost becomes non-negligible.

What do others think? Am I just being daft with my anti-stain stand point, or are there cheaper alternatives to black walnut? Or should I just bite the bullet and get the walnut and enjoy it?

Thoughts and opinions welcome...

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi Ewan,

I guess it depends on your view point.

I would say you're about right with the price. It's not cheap but it is lovely wood to use and the end results are usually stunning. The only time the cost of the wood ought to be an issue is in your confidence in your ability because the worst thing that could happn would be for you to buy all that lovely wood and then make a hash of it!! If you are comfortable with your abilities then go for it and enjoy both the making process and the end result.

As for staining, I see no problem doing it, as long as it's done well. I've seen plenty of work that has ended up blotchy and un-even because of poor staining but if it's done properly there really is no problem. You might even argue it's traditional!!

HTH

Richard

 

[paulm]

If you can do the material justice, get the walnut, otherwise you will always regret the piece when you look at it.

Could you make do with less walnut by veneering in places ?

Cheers, Paul

 

[Waka]

I'm with Paul go for the Walnut.

Regarding staining I'm with you on this and I also believe that you should never stain hardwood. I'm sure I'll get shot down on this.

 

[matt]

I'm with you re staining. Never looks right to me.

Go with the walnut. If cost is an issue then walnut does contrast nicely with painted finishes, so perhaps a walnut top over a painted base?

 

[yetloh]

100% wih you on staining. I can never see the point in using a timber which will have it's own beauty (whatever it is) and then trying t turn it into something else. Iagree with the others who have rsponeded about the American black walnut. English Walnut can be even more beutiful but is even more expensive. I am sure you will not regret the expenditure on the American stuff.

Jim

 

[jimi43]

Staining has its place where matching during restoration is the goal otherwise - YUCK! The only other time I use stain is in pigmenting for sunbursts on guitars or "ageing" necks...

I don't particularly like American walnut though...and that's just me... :wink:

Jim

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I suppose the question that hasn't been addressed is should you dye or otherwise colour walnut as part of the finishing routine? If, like me, you often find American black walnut a bit cold and uninviting finished only with some clear finishes, then you have to do something to address that shortcoming.

For instance, water based finishes particularly, some shellacs, and sprayed lacquers, applied alone, leave walnut with this coldness I described. In many cases the walnut's colour I find is improved through colouring up the wood in some way prior to applying the final protective film forming polish.

The colouring up can take a variety of forms, eg, an application of boiled linseed oil; or a mix of brown, red, and yellow dyes is another; pigment stains will improve the colour, and so can an application of grain filler. Of course, everyones tastes are different, but colouring up walnut, just like any other wood species, both before and during polishing has long been very common.

My point is that just because you are using walnut, that doesn't mean to say it will automatically look good with just a clear finish. Slainte.

 

[danielhuw]

I love walnut too, but I also love brown oak. It has a beautiful milk chocolate colour, which turns a deeper hue when finished. Same sort of price as regular oak.

Dan

 

[jeffinfrance]

if you want dark, you could ammonia oak. you can get it almost black and technically you're just speeding up the aging process.

jeff

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Funnily, I reread the piece on warming walnut in Woodworking Magazine just yesterday.
Here's a pdf of the article: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/uploa ... Walnut.pdf

 

[tekno.mage]

I just finished making a couple of turned boxes from a small piece of American Walnut and the colour and figure of the wood is lovely. From that small experience, I'd say go with the American Walnut.

I am also not a fan of staining wood a different shade of brown (unless for restoration colour matching purposes), although I'm not adverse to using brightly coloured stains (pink, green, purple etc) for decorative reasons on pale woods as I prefer to see the grain through the colour, rather than have it obliterated by opaque paint.

Kym

 

[Steve Maskery]

I'm with SD on this.

What's natural? Natural when unfinished? Natural under BLO? Natural under Pre-Cat? Natural under Hardwax Oil? Natural under shellac?

The reason that much stained furniture looks bad is that often the colour doesn't match the grain. It's no use taking a oiece of softwood, slapping some Rustin's on it and saying it's Medium Oak, because the grain of pine will never allow it to look like oak, no matter what the colour is. On the other hand, most trad oak furniture has had some kind of colouring process done to it to make it look that nice aged colour.

I have a desk and chair in figured maple and ABW. The drawer handles were finished in button polish and look great, the rest was sprayed with Hydrocote and now, ten years later, the ABW looks very washed out indeed. Natural?

I'm no expert finisher, indeed, it's probably my biggest weakness, but even I recognise that APPROPRIATE colouring is often the difference between an adequate and a stunning finishing job. I just wish I were good at it.

My 2p.

S

 

[matt]

I don't think there's really much room for debate here. Everyone likes different things (finishes/woods, etc), therefore, it's just a case of choosing what you like and taking on board the practical advice about how to achieve certain finishes (i.e. ageing oak).

 

[9fingers]

I would also go for the ABW but do select your boards with great care and there can be considerable sapwood in ABW.
I bought some sawn ABW a while back for the first time and about 1/3 of it turned out to be rather pale and the chap serving me said that ABW was the one timber that he now will not offer selection advice on as it can be so variable.
I ended up having to stain the piece with van dyck crystals to get an acceptable consistent finish.
Next time I buy some I might consider getting it planed at the mill and then pick it over carefully before accepting it.

Maybe I was unlucky - who knows?

Bob

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Maybe I was unlucky - who knows?
Bob

No, you weren't really unlucky, but I suspect you may not fully understand the American grading system, particularly as it relates to American black walnut and and cherry. In both these species F1F (First One face) grading means the best face must meet the highest visual grading rules, and the lesser face must meet the No.1 Common (No1C) rules. There are some special rules for grading these timbers where sapwood isn't considered a fault.

You will also find sapwood in American maples and ash, where its whitenes is prized. Slainte.

 

[Tarkin]

Wow! I went away for a few days but I see this has sparked a little debate!

Thanks to all those that replied with suggestions, and I'm happy to see that so many agree with my dislike of heavy stain. I'm pretty sure I'll be going ahead with the ABW.

Sigian, Steve: You make a very good point. I haven't quite decided on a finish, but I would like something that makes it a touch warmer than it is "naturally". I suspect a post in the Finishing advice forum will be coming in the near future.

dunbarhamlin: Thanks for the link to the article, very interesting!

Dan: Brown Oak is nice too, but I have a fair amount of oak furniture (of various species) building up and I want something a little different this time.

 

[woodbloke]

I'm with others here on the staining issue...not something I generally ever do. I might use a bit of BLO sometimes to darken something down a bit, but that's about the limit of what I do - Rob

 

[Benchwayze]

If you can do the material justice, get the walnut, otherwise you will always regret the piece when you look at it.

Could you make do with less walnut by veneering in places ?

Cheers, Paul

I agree. 100%

John