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To float, or not to float?

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Nev Hallam

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Strangley enough, after miss reading a thread in here about hanging a door, thinking he said laying a floor! I had a phone call to go look at house where the homeowner requires about 80sq Mtrs of hardwood flooring laying. The guys planning on buying t&g oak floor. I usually lay a floor using adhesive to the screed or concrete, as it going to cover the entire downstairs of his house there's an area of floorboards an extension of screed floor and a concrete hallway.
Can I get away with a floating floor throughout the house or should I stick to the adhesive!

See what I did there with the stick thing!
 

Froggy

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Hi NH Sorry I can't answer your question, but I have a question? What do you use to stick oak flooring to concrete?

By the way I laughed a lot at the 'floor/door' thread. (homer)
 

Nev Hallam

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Froggy":2gqyqg07 said:
Hi NH Sorry I can't answer your question, but I have a question? What do you use to stick oak flooring to concrete?

By the way I laughed a lot at the 'floor/door' thread. (homer)
Yes typical me, speed read, reply get laughed at!

Last floor I used a flexible adhesive called rewmar, the guy had already bought it but it was good stuff.
 

Hudson Carpentry

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Wood flooring as far as I know should never be stuck down, how does the timber move when it expand?? If the sub floor will take nails then you secret nail them, if not you always float them gluing the tongue but not the end grains. Or am I missing something?
 

Benchwayze

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Hudson Carpentry":1877o5ln said:
I have never seen it, its the first I have heard of it. Surly if the timber can't move then it will crack?
Nah! That's probably our old-fashioned thinking Hud! :roll:

Just had a thought. Proper parquet flooring was stuck down, but of course the herring-bone pattern that was usual, meant varying grain direction; although memories of HMS Ganges, remind me that occasionally contractors came in to repair lifted blocks.
 

Nev Hallam

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Benchwayze":30l3dj59 said:
Hudson Carpentry":30l3dj59 said:
I have never seen it, its the first I have heard of it. Surly if the timber can't move then it will crack?
Nah! That's probably our old-fashioned thinking Hud! :roll:

Just had a thought. Proper parquet flooring was stuck down, but of course the herring-bone pattern that was usual, meant varying grain direction; although memories of HMS Ganges, remind me that occasionally contractors came in to repair lifted blocks.
Parquet flooring is made up of small pieces, there's less chance of movement with small bits of wood.
They have been sticking hardwood floors down for donkeys years. It's a trusted method.
I have no issue with it.
Floating is ok too, I'm worried about doing large areas, say 5 meters across. I'd like to do it but in my experience I've always glued it down I was hoping someone in here might know more about it to advise.
 

Eric The Viking

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Surely there was a small gap around the blocks in parquet?

I'm guessing there was movement, but that it wasn't really visible. I've done a bit of PA installation work in churches, where large a large acreage of parquet is common. There are often loose blocks, but they usually have quite a gap around them. The stuff I've had to deal with was held down with tar/bitumen, which is still a bit flexible, even when it's quite cold, and the "good" gaps would be of the order of 1mm when dry.

The other thing is that they were usually waxed, often quite heavily, which would keep the moisture content fairly constant.

So I'm guessing they moved, but people didn't really notice.

E.
 

Benchwayze

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Any gaps in the parquet at HMS Ganges would have been full of Mansion Wax! (The tins, the size of a 7 pint bumper, had a ruddy great arrow on them, but I think it must have been 'Manson'.) The blocks were scrubbed individually with boot brushes by us; on hands and knees. And heaven help you if your 'bed-space' wasn't up to snuff! Yes the blocks did occasionally come adrift.
Come to think on it, any one those mess-blocks would have made a great workshop!
 

Nev Hallam

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Hudson Carpentry":2ocgznt6 said:
Wood flooring as far as I know should never be stuck down, how does the timber move when it expand?? If the sub floor will take nails then you secret nail them, if not you always float them gluing the tongue but not the end grains. Or am I missing something?

I think you make an interesting point though, everything I've ever learnt and been taught about wood tells me if it has nowhere to move it will crack or warp. After speaking to a mate I learn he's seen a few floors cracked and damaged by using floor adhesive. He said he'd never stick a floor down. Yet so many do, even so called specialists. Maybe flexible does allow for slight movement. Further research required!
 

Pete Maddex

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Hi,

I have stuck an oak floor down with the correct adhesive to a concrete floor.
Can’t remember what it was, but that was what it was made to do, I don’t think it fully goes off so allows for movement.

Pete
 

Froggy

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About 3 years ago I laid a parquet floor with a flexible glue (can't remember now what it was called) to a tiled floor in my kitchen. So far there has been no movement that I've noticed and none of the wood has cracked. But the parquet blocks were only small ( about 12-14 inch by 2") and quite thick. So I imagine movement would be minimal.
 

Jake

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An MS Polymer (like the Rewmar, but there are many others) is the best, but there are polurethanes like sikaflex and so which will do the same thing (with a lot more fumes). Basically, very rubbery adhesive and you need a good thick layer with a notched trowel.

No problems so far with mine, which is aargh how long ago. Gaps open up a bit in winter, they close up in summer.

http://www.woodworkuk.co.uk/forum/viewt ... ilit=floor
 

Aled Dafis

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Glue it. The guy I bought my oak floor from has gone over to gluing all of his floors now, regardless of the substrate. Modern flexible adhesives are amazing!
 

No skills

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Sika do some adhesives for this purpose, I think they remain flexable after curing to allow for a small amount of movement. You would hope the owners of nice hardwood floors would keep them well sealed to reduce the amount of moisture getting in - if not feel free to send me your flooring.

For the record I have some oak flooring over a plywood subfloor, it is nailed and glued down (with a slightly flexable adhesive), in one spot I have a fishtank weighing in around 500kg and yes I do splash water on the floor sometimes :roll: - the flooring is t&g all around, there is no cracking.

fwiw
 

wobblycogs

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I'm guessing that all of these glued down floors are in modern buildings where the humidity is low all year round. I'm pretty sure that if I glued a wooden floor down in our place it would be warped and cracked within a year regardless of how flexible the glue is.
 

Jake

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Mine's in a Victorian building, suspended floor over a void.

This bit got a bit modified with insulation and building paper underneath, but basically a drafty old house all the same.
 

No skills

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Couldnt answer before, been away. My crappy terrace house is 110+ years old and as above - vented void under the floor and some airtech (?) insulation under the oak floor and ply. Fishtank evaps upward of 5 gallons of water a week depending on the weather so not exactly humidity controlled.

Fwiw
 

nodnostik

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Hi, I use Sikaflex as an adhesive/sealer on my motor home, The variations of heat and weather on all the panels (aluminium) surfaces on insulation and ply) is excessive and movement is inevitable but no leaks at any joints, The wooden floor is also fixed with sikaflex and there are no problems, I think the clue is probably in the name SikaFLEX. Modern adhesives are absolutely amazing. all be it often very expensive, but as we all know you only get what you pay for (Usually).
 
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