The qestion of the saw nib

[undergroundhunter]

So as we all know there is an uncertainty as to what the nib on the end of the saw plate was actually used for, some say decoration, other say to secure a batten in to which the teeth sat to protect them. Well while surfing youtube this morning I found a gent who calls himself Mr Chickadee, he builds timer frame cabins and the such using trad methods and tools, while watching this fine fellow I spotted that he uses the nib to start the cut??? I don't think I've heard that one before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ar6ikn4EVc about 1.10 in.

Interesting.

Matt

 

[bugbear]

So as we all know there is an uncertainty as to what the nib on the end of the saw plate was actually used for, some say decoration, other say to secure a batten in to which the teeth sat to protect them. Well while surfing youtube this morning I found a gent who calls himself Mr Chickadee, he builds timer frame cabins and the such using trad methods and tools, while watching this fine fellow I spotted that he uses the nib to start the cut??? I don't think I've heard that one before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ar6ikn4EVc about 1.10 in.

Interesting.

Matt

The idea has been proposed before. There's no more evidence for it than any of the other ideas.

BugBear

 

[undergroundhunter]

So as we all know there is an uncertainty as to what the nib on the end of the saw plate was actually used for, some say decoration, other say to secure a batten in to which the teeth sat to protect them. Well while surfing youtube this morning I found a gent who calls himself Mr Chickadee, he builds timer frame cabins and the such using trad methods and tools, while watching this fine fellow I spotted that he uses the nib to start the cut??? I don't think I've heard that one before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ar6ikn4EVc about 1.10 in.

Interesting.

Matt

The idea has been proposed before. There's no more evidence for it than any of the other ideas.

BugBear

Oh I agree I've just never seen it done before
Matt

 

[Jacob]

There is no uncertainty about the saw nib. It's a convenient marker about 4" from the end of the blade which warns a new user that he must stop his pull stroke at that point. Very useful with a new saw if you are not familiar with its length. If there isn't a nib a felt tip mark will do the same.
There's a strange myth that "nobody knows what it's for" :shock: but this is nonsense.

 

[bugbear]

Disston and Sons published an explanation in their Lumberman Handbook stating:

The "Nib" near the end of a hand saw has no practical use whatever, it merely serves to break the straight line of the back of blade [sic] and is an ornamentation only.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

But they were wrong.

 

[ED65]

Oh here we go, nobody knows for sure yet somehow Jacob has the real skinny.

With all due respect plug these two facts into your supposition:

Not every nib is a convenient 4" from the end of the blade.
Some saws are so long the arm pull wouldn't allow the stroke to end at that point unless you were 8 feet tall and had arms like a chimp!

So much for that theory.

Personally I subscribe to the notion that it originally had a practical purpose. But it was retained purely as a decorative element, which the occasional highly ornamented example seems to support. There are numerous parallels to this in tools and weapons from the mediaeval period and on into later forms.

 

[ColeyS1]

Jacob, I had to 'thank' your last post. It made me proper chuckle

Coley

 

[Jacob]

...
Not every nib is a convenient 4" from the end of the blade....

4 ish will do.
It's perfectly obvious what its for, and very useful too if you are using an unfamiliar saw or are a a novice. It must have saved a few million kinked blades over the years!

It's common practice to put a felt tip mark on a hand saw in a classroom of novices. If you found a felt tip mark on a saw would you say that nobody knew what it was for?

 

[bugbear]

It's common practice to put a felt tip mark on a hand saw in a classroom of novices.

Anyone (other than Jacob) heard of this?

Any of the woodwork teachers amongst us?

Anyone who's attended a class?

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

It's common practice to put a felt tip mark on a hand saw in a classroom of novices.

Anyone (other than Jacob) heard of this?

Any of the woodwork teachers amongst us?

Anyone who's attended a class?

BugBear

We were issued with a set of new tools and advised to put a mark to avoid kinking a lovely new hand saw blade.
Not essential, not universal, but still useful, and good advice.

Are you saying its not useful and not good advice?

 

[Trafalgar]

It's common practice to put a felt tip mark on a hand saw in a classroom of novices.

Anyone (other than Jacob) heard of this?

Any of the woodwork teachers amongst us?

Anyone who's attended a class?

BugBear

I've heard of it (making a mark, attaching a piece of tape, etc.). I think it's in a Hayward book as well, might be Hooper and Wells though. Next time I run across it I'll post it. Saws are kinked at the toe much more often than the heel so it's good advice regardless.

I think nibs were on saws when Mr. Disston was still in diapers weren't they? How would he have really known their purpose, otherwise? This could be my misunderstanding, but I don't think Disston introduced nibs on saws.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I think nibs were on saws when Mr. Disston was still in diapers weren't they? How would he have really known their purpose, otherwise? This could be my misunderstanding, but I don't think Disston introduced nibs on saws.

I've no way to prove this, but there were nibs on saws imported into America from Sheffield when Henry Disston started making saws, so it's possible he incorporated them because that's what his customers expected to see.

Did not Disston employ Sheffield emigrants when he first started making his own steel? Could they have been the source of his statement that the nib was decorative only?

Simon Barley states in 'British Saws and Saw Makers' (page 11) that both Disston and Spear and Jackson stated clearly in their handbooks at various times that the nib was decorative only.

I suppose if people have subsequently found uses for it, that's a bonus. However, it does seem that at least two major manufacturers are quite explicit in their reason for putting them there in the first place.

 

[bugbear]

It's common practice to put a felt tip mark on a hand saw in a classroom of novices.

Anyone (other than Jacob) heard of this?

Any of the woodwork teachers amongst us?

Anyone who's attended a class?

BugBear

We were issued with a set of new tools and advised to put a mark to avoid kinking a lovely new hand saw blade.
Not essential, not universal, but still useful, and good advice.

Are you saying its not useful and not good advice?

I'm attempting to confirm (or deny) your description of the idea as "common practice". Thus far (thank you for the clarification) we have a single instance of a teacher mentioning it.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

.....
I suppose if people have subsequently found uses for it, that's a bonus. However, it does seem that at least two major manufacturers are quite explicit in their reason for putting them there in the first place.

Quite explicitly ignorant of the reason.
That's how it is with long craft traditions - people do the right thing (hopefully) but without always knowing exactly why it is right.

I became glaringly obvious to me when I bought a couple of very old British saws (Sorby, Ibbotson) of different lengths, never having had nibs before. The very first time I used one I suddenly thought "oops how long is this saw" - just as the nib emerged on the upstroke to remind me.

 

[Jacob]

.......

Anyone (other than Jacob) heard of this?

Any of the woodwork teachers amongst us?

Anyone who's attended a class?

BugBear

We were issued with a set of new tools and advised to put a mark to avoid kinking a lovely new hand saw blade.
Not essential, not universal, but still useful, and good advice.

Are you saying its not useful and not good advice?

I'm attempting to confirm (or deny) your description of the idea as "common practice". Thus far (thank you for the clarification) we have a single instance of a teacher mentioning it.

BugBear

Keep up the good work BB :lol: :lol:

 

[n0legs]

It's common practice to put a felt tip mark on a hand saw in a classroom of novices.

Anyone (other than Jacob) heard of this?

Any of the woodwork teachers amongst us?

Anyone who's attended a class?

BugBear

Woodwork , 3 years at comprehensive. No marks on blade.

 

[Jacob]

It's common practice to put a felt tip mark on a hand saw in a classroom of novices.

Anyone (other than Jacob) heard of this?

Any of the woodwork teachers amongst us?

Anyone who's attended a class?

BugBear

Woodwork , 3 years at comprehensive. No marks on blade.

Yes but if you had been made to put them on you can be sure that a few kinked blades would have been saved.

In any case it's not about who/what,/when, it's about whether or not the nib is useful, and it certainly is.

 

[n0legs]

Yes but if you had been made to put them on you can be sure that a few kinked blades would have been saved.

In any case it's not about who/what,/when, it's about whether or not the nib is useful, and it certainly is.

Honestly can't remember any kinked blades, good teacher I guess.
The nib, is a lovely bit of decoration though.

 

[bugbear]

In any case it's not about who/what,/when, it's about whether or not the nib is useful, and it certainly is.

A "Butler Swerve"!

We haven't had a good one of those for ages.

BugBear