Thanks for Sparing the Planes, Fellas!

[D_W]

I've posted before that it's hard to get a good matching set of wooden planes here in the states, especially if you want them to be well made, little used, complete and not exorbitant.

So I got a set of 8 griffiths beaders from over there last month for $280 (which some of you guys would croak at, I noticed a similar set that didn't list shipping to the US, from a different maker, sold for about $80 - definitely worth more to us than you guys!!)

And as I'm wrapping up the H&R planes that I'd use in a half set (2-12, I don't have much use for the big ones), I saw the same seller list a set of skew H&R, griffiths, and matching, and had to give a princely sum for those, too (about $700 after dickering).

And I feel a little dirty for spending that much when I have made my own planes already, but I do like the griffiths stuff of all of the more modern planes (at least in relative terms).

I presume nobody wants to buy stuff like that over there because they sit and sit on ebay!

But you should see the rubbish we have to sift through over here as far as moulding planes go.

And I tracked down a nice moving fillister to replace my auburn moving fillister that is decent, but fairly cheaply made. Again, probably expensive to you guys, but I can't imagine making a plane as nice without having to make five first to iron out the kinks.

I don't know what we have that you guys like to pay a lot of money for (probably nothing - jeans, maybe, our Scot friend always buys a bunch of jeans here), but we'll take the woodies over here in the US if you line them up and take a nice picture!!

Not sure if I will keep the H&Rs long since I have fresh ones made, but mine are not skew and I'm curious to try something English made after nearly 10 years of buying the american junk I can find at flea markets here.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

If you're prepared to spend that sort of money on secondhand, it might be worth your while getting in touch with Philly for a pair of side rounds, a pair of snipe bills and a nice, crisp rebate plane or two to keep the H&Rs company.

http://www.phillyplanes.co.uk/

 

[Mr_P]

The guy in question has some very nice gear for sale, he is also a master at cleaning things. Once upon atime I watched a rare but rusty plane sell for about a £1k a few months later it re-appeared for £2k. He currently has a nice plane for sale at alomst £600, I own its shabby twin purchased in auction for £80.

 

[monkeybiter]

Wish I'd read this thread a few days ago, local antiques and collectible fair, a box full of molding planes ~50-60 @ £3.00 each. I could only justify the lone beading plane for my own use, but I was sorely tempted.
I suppose I should have bought them and listed for international sale?

 

[adidat]

All depends on names condition and matching pairs have about 40 moulding planes above my bench. I have a part set of 6 in fantastic condition.

Adidat

 

[D_W]

If you're prepared to spend that sort of money on secondhand, it might be worth your while getting in touch with Philly for a pair of side rounds, a pair of snipe bills and a nice, crisp rebate plane or two to keep the H&Rs company.

http://www.phillyplanes.co.uk/

Ahh, I've already got snipes bills planes, though I'm not sure they are as necessary as they are made out to be (I've never had occasion to use one striking a moulding).

I don't begrudge any of the custom makers, but they don't actually make anything that I can't make, so when the price gets to that level (5 times or more the price per plane as a vintage set like the ones I'm talking about), I'm making instead of buying. When beaders are $30-$40 each in crisp condition, I will buy (if they were $200, I would've gone to the trouble to make a jig to scratch the profiles, or made mother planes to make a set).

The one thing that's hidden in plane sight and not politically correct to say is that I expect a slipped bead from griffiths or a skewed hollow or round is better technically than the planes philly and others make, but they have some cosmetics eliminated due to pressure at the time they're made (so I regard them at least as good as the new planes, even if they might require some minor touch up for fit due to wood movement). It's certainly the case that a griffiths double iron try plane is beyond anything the boutique makers are making in single iron.

 

[D_W]

Wish I'd read this thread a few days ago, local antiques and collectible fair, a box full of molding planes ~50-60 @ £3.00 each. I could only justify the lone beading plane for my own use, but I was sorely tempted.
I suppose I should have bought them and listed for international sale?

I had started with this idea, actually in dollars slightly more expensive. I found a dealer online who had a whole glom of planes and they offered to go through and find the ones that actually had potential to be used and sold them to me for $10 each. In the end, I got 40 planes, though they only charged me for 30 out of some guilt on the condition of some, and five of them were dado planes.

The conundrum is that none of the harlequins matched that well, and many needed a fair bit of work. After that, the set had many pairs that could be squeezed out of it but not many narrower pairs, and I learned a lesson. I sold most of the H&Rs to another forum member for very cheap, kept a couple of unmatched narrow rounds and kept the dado planes and was almost back to where I started from - wishing for a good matched set. In the US, they just aren't common, but it seems they are over there. I regard the griffiths planes as well made modernish looking planes, and that's fine. If I decide that it's worth building a second set of H&Rs, but skew as the griffiths are, I will be able to sell them here without much loss (maybe not any).

Sellers here (reputable ones at least) will sell pairs for about $50, but the planes need to be in good shape. The sets go up from there, even though the reality is half a dozen of the planes are bigger than we'll ever use. Just as the four largest beads are probably planes I'll never have an occasion to use.

At any rate, I guess the situation isn't 100% different from there, but things are orders of magnitude better there as the decent makers kept on longer whereas in the states, we ended up with a lot of auburn moulding planes and ohio tool bench planes. I'd bet a US seller would expect $600 for a matched half set of H&R with an auburn mark, and $400+ for a harlequin set that needs work.

Though the stuff like the griffiths set may be common fare in the UK, I'm glad to find it compared to here (and I admit that even if I hadn't made 6 pairs already, I could've hunted and pecked and matched less than ideal harlequin pairs and had workable planes - the person who bought planes from my original bulk box had put them to use).

Postage, by the way, is a real problem from there to the US. If you could put together several matched pairs, you could make a go of it, but if you had to use small packets for about $15 for a pair, it starts to put a dent in the savings.

 

[D_W]

The guy in question has some very nice gear for sale, he is also a master at cleaning things. Once upon atime I watched a rare but rusty plane sell for about a £1k a few months later it re-appeared for £2k. He currently has a nice plane for sale at alomst £600, I own its shabby twin purchased in auction for £80.

Some of the prices on the other things are quite high, but some of the moulders are in line here.

I cannot find fabulous deals on crisp English infills or clean matched sets of beaders or H&Rs here, but finding metal planes in the wild cheap is very common, including sometimes fairly rare planes.

 

[D_W]

The guy in question has some very nice gear for sale, he is also a master at cleaning things. Once upon atime I watched a rare but rusty plane sell for about a £1k a few months later it re-appeared for £2k. He currently has a nice plane for sale at alomst £600, I own its shabby twin purchased in auction for £80.

Some of the prices on the other things are quite high, but some of the moulders are in line here.

I cannot find fabulous deals on crisp English infills or clean matched sets of beaders or H&Rs here, but finding metal planes in the wild cheap is very common, including sometimes fairly rare planes.

 

[ajmacleod]

I found a dealer online who had a whole glom of planes and they offered to go through and find the ones that actually had potential to be used and sold them to me for $10 each. In the end, I got 40 planes, though they only charged me for 30 out of some guilt on the condition of some, and five of them were dado planes.

Was it Andy Stephens (Inchmartine Tool Bazaar) by any chance? When I was looking for a few H&Rs a while back an American had cleaned out his stocks! Up here we don't have the kind of car boot sales full of planes and other tools going for a song that those in the South of England seem to benefit from so have to take our chances with Internet dealers too.

 

[D_W]

It's a seller called tea and teak on eBay. Some of the prices on other things are astounding, so you may want to sit down before you view anything there.

 

[dickm]

Is inchmartine still open? We only go past occasionally, usually in a hurry to get somewhere else, so haven't had a chance to look in for a few years.

 

[ED65]

It's a seller called tea and teak on eBay. Some of the prices on other things are astounding, so you may want to sit down before you view anything there.

What the market will bear I guess but Jesus! Some of those prices are outrageous.

A 606 sold for 65 quid at auction in the UK in November so I don't know how £295 for a 608 can be justified.

 

[ajmacleod]

Is inchmartine still open? We only go past occasionally, usually in a hurry to get somewhere else, so haven't had a chance to look in for a few years.

I've never been to the actual shop but I've certainly bought (online) from him in the past year... might not always be the cheapest around but I've never had a dud yet which sometimes is more important to me than saving a quid or so by risking a random eBay purchase.

 

[D_W]

It's a seller called tea and teak on eBay. Some of the prices on other things are astounding, so you may want to sit down before you view anything there.

What the market will bear I guess but Jesus! Some of those prices are outrageous.

A 606 sold for 65 quid at auction in the UK in November so I don't know how £295 for a 608 can be justified.

608s are high, even here in the states. A 606 probably would bring what you've said. The guy seems to have an array of fairly desirable stuff. No clue on the sky high rare stuff.

 

[Mr_P]

The high end stuff tends to be ermm high, sky high

One of the original A28 Norris planes was sold at David Stanley’s auction Sept 2014 for £8,000 (+ commissions). In the light of this my price of £4,800 is very reasonable, especially as my plane is far superior in quality and construction. Who knows what these will be worth when I am gone.

http://www.holteyplanes.com/blog/category/a28/

I know a chap on here who was accused by paypal/ebay of money laundering. So maybe its the criminal underworld buying these to use as currency that drives the prices up or maybe it is just wealthy collectors with safes to fill.

 

[AndyT]

Dave, can you say a bit more about why you want your hollows and rounds in closely matched pairs? Is it just a nice-to-have extra?

I know this is how they were often sold, but as far as I know, most cases where you would use the planes to make a moulding don't need exact matching to each other or to a particular size.

 

[D_W]

Dave, can you say a bit more about why you want your hollows and rounds in closely matched pairs? Is it just a nice-to-have extra?

I know this is how they were often sold, but as far as I know, most cases where you would use the planes to make a moulding don't need exact matching to each other or to a particular size.

Nice to have extra. If I had to make do with less, I'd lay out a moulding for whatever I have. I am kind of a fan of griffiths, too, and may not have sprung for a set of something else for as much.

I have made to this point (wrapping up, right now) #2-#12 straight ironed hollows and rounds, and they work nicely (most planes do when they're new and recently bedded and wedge recently fit). If I find no difference in performance, then I won't keep both sets, and will eventually finish out the house made set.

That leads to the other reason full sets are useful to have here in the states - sets are easier to sell here than partial sets. Either the seller of this set or a prior owner located a used pair of #6s to round out this set. Without tracking those down, I'd expect that you'd be better of selling individual pairs. I don't know if the UK is the same way. I see sets around here missing a pair or a few random planes, and they are $400-$500 - dealers here for a good condition half set seem to want about $1000 or so. Less than that if the sets are beat, but I don't want a beat set.

I can't say what I would've bought if I wasn't a fan of making tools (I probably would've been too cheap to buy a nice set like this, it's still a fair bit of coin).

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Dave

I acquired a near half set of Griffith H&R planes in 2003. I discussed this on Old Tools at the time. The link is here ..

http://swingleydev.com/ot/get/122170/thread/#122170

The set was in decent condition, but did need a little work to bring them up to speed (initially I thought they were good to go).

There were a few posts in the thread from other members that may be interesting - some history, and also Larry Williams mentioning sizing of British hollows and rounds.

Regards from Edinburgh

Derek

 

[D_W]

Hi Derek - have you found them favorable to use? I guess that's not much of a question to ask, they are a function of their fit, as you've said - if everything is locked down tight and they are set up properly with the iron matching the sole, life is good.

The few pairs I've made have been a treat to use, though the use is quick. I've made mine to larry's sizing there, as I learned to make them from his video. I gather looking at the griffiths and other sets that the 2s may not be as small as larry says (1/8th width iron), but that'll be easy to tell. I expect that though they look nice, some will benefit from attention to the wedge and iron profile (I hope that's all, except for the worn ones).

With good luck, I'll have mine tomorrow. UPS says they weigh 0.5kg as a complete set, which makes me wonder if I might be getting a plane instead of a set. :shock: