Tenon Saw Advice

[AJB Temple]

I agree with CC.
I also happen to like nice tools and can afford them. In my experience they can appreciably raise the pleasure we get form woodworking. In lots of cases we make do with cheap or old tools and then when we get good ones it is a revelation. I have recently had that experience when I finally got used to not being able to read the rule on my combination square (which I use all the time) and forked out £108 for a Starrett set. Frankly I should have done that a long time ago as the Starrett is superb.

But with many things it does help to have tools you can abuse. I retire old hard point saws in this way - we recently demolished some partitions in an outbuilding and I needed to cut down a lot of stuff with nails sticking out to take it to the tip. The old hard point saws were ideal. Sometimes when I am making my endless timber frames, I need a chisel that I don't mind breaking or damaging with a sharp clout from a 3 pound hammer and that is where the eBay bargains come into their own.

Keep at it Pete and don't let us put you off. I had never heard of Skelton saws until this thread, so it was worth it for me just for that.

 

[G S Haydon]

Good advice from Andy & CC!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Whats it called when woodworkers do it Lurker ?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Tool tools?

 

[cowfoot]

I'd be a bit wary of using an expensive saw as a beginner - it's easy to put a kink in thin saw blades if you aren't careful.
Buy an ebay "doer-upper", sharpen it (which takes a morning at most to get acceptably good at) and get used to using it.
You'll then gain twice as much satisfaction when you buy a properly sharpened expensive saw!

 

[DoctorWibble]

I too didn't have a deep enough back saw to cut the tenons on my workbench. So I had a go every which way. Splitting them with a chisel, splitting with an axe, cutting them with a variety of not very sharp ebay saws, with a new hardpoint, as well as various combinations of the above. Anyway all methods (even the blunt saws) worked out in the end and there was little to choose between them. As a rank beginner I kept well away from the lines and so had loads of paring to do regardless which I did with a ragtag mixture of ebay planes and chisels and the dogiest poor mans router you're ever likely to see. But whatever tools you use you'll find you've invested quite a lot of time in the parts by the time you get to cutting tenons and for that reason, even with the best saws, I expect, like me, you'll feel disinclined to risk a close cut.

 

[AJB Temple]

But....the whole point of using a fine tooth back saw is to avoid having to do a lot (or any) cleaning up! That is the beauty of learning to saw neatly with good quality tools.

 

[DoctorWibble]

But....the whole point of using a fine tooth back saw is to avoid having to do a lot (or any) cleaning up! That is the beauty of learning to saw neatly with good quality tools.

Sure but not many would aim to finish a huge tenon straight from the saw. And how close should a beginner go? The fine saw in this case is maybe unlikely to be put to any kind of test.

 

[Petey83]

Probably worth highlighting that I'm not a total saw virgin and have been using hardpoint saws for years - a lot when I laboured for a sparks as a teenager. I've learnt that a decent Irwin or Bacho saw makes all the difference. I think having a SCMS made me lazy but I still used a hardpoint saw a just the other week to cut to size some noggins to support some cuts I had to make to floor boards upstairs.
I also have experience cutting dovetails with my Japanese saw but that's semi cheating as I use a David Barron guide at the moment.

What I really need to learn is sawing accuracy on bigger joints and ennot using a guide. I've never had to be mm perfect with free hand sawing with a hard point to date. I ordered way more pine 2x4 than I needed for the bench and saw horses so I've got plenty practice on. The Skeltons take 9 months at the moment so by the time I next speak to Shane I would have had 9 months practice with the 2 Veritas carcass saws I have and my Japanese and gents dovetail saws (I want to learn free hand and stop using the guide eventually)

 

[Petey83]

But....the whole point of using a fine tooth back saw is to avoid having to do a lot (or any) cleaning up! That is the beauty of learning to saw neatly with good quality tools.

Sure but not many would aim to finish a huge tenon straight from the saw. And how close should a beginner go? The fine saw in this case is maybe unlikely to be put to any kind of test.

In my head I am planning to go to witting a mm of the line and then clean off with a router plane as Paul Sellers does..... in practice I won't know how close I am comftable going until I've had a practice next week.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Even in school woodwork lessons, we were expected to finish a tenon straight from the saw, the teacher telling us that our 'O' level exam pieces would be examined for the tell-tale three triangles of saw-marks, and we'd lose marks if they were not there.

Now OK - in the real world, it does take a bit of skill and knowing your saw to do that with big tenons, but the aim should be to get pretty close. After all, if you were on piece-work back in the day, you wouldn't want to be wasting time paring for a fit. Bang 'em in, and on to the next one...

 

[D_W]

Probably worth highlighting that I'm not a total saw virgin and have been using hardpoint saws for years - a lot when I laboured for a sparks as a teenager. I've learnt that a decent Irwin or Bacho saw makes all the difference. I think having a SCMS made me lazy but I still used a hardpoint saw a just the other week to cut to size some noggins to support some cuts I had to make to floor boards upstairs.
I also have experience cutting dovetails with my Japanese saw but that's semi cheating as I use a David Barron guide at the moment.

What I really need to learn is sawing accuracy on bigger joints and ennot using a guide. I've never had to be mm perfect with free hand sawing with a hard point to date. I ordered way more pine 2x4 than I needed for the bench and saw horses so I've got plenty practice on. The Skeltons take 9 months at the moment so by the time I next speak to Shane I would have had 9 months practice with the 2 Veritas carcass saws I have and my Japanese and gents dovetail saws (I want to learn free hand and stop using the guide eventually)

Practice is good, but build something with those 2x4s (like nice saw benches or something that have mortises or through mortises or whatever you like - it gives you a good chance to take breaks between practice cuts (to do other parts of a build) and gives you good feedback on what's acceptable and what's not in terms of accuracy.

Practice repairing the mistakes, too, also a good thing to learn.

 

[DoctorWibble]

Petey83 it sounds like you have all the skills and tools you need to make a bench now. Waiting 9 months for the perfect tool to cut maybe 8 tenons is nuts and I think deep down you know it. Chances are you'll end up with no bench because the longer you build it in your head the more daunting actually doing it will become. Do you really want to invest a year of your spare time NOT building a bench?
If you need a bit of inspiration maybe have a look at the Richard Maguire video series in which he builds a 12ft bench with little more than a hard point saw and a chisel.

 

[Petey83]

Petey83 it sounds like you have all the skills and tools you need to make a bench now. Waiting 9 months for the perfect tool to cut maybe 8 tenons is nuts and I think deep down you know it. Chances are you'll end up with no bench because the longer you build it in your head the more daunting actually doing it will become. Do you really want to invest a year of your spare time NOT building a bench?
If you need a bit of inspiration maybe have a look at the Richard Maguire video series in which he builds a 12ft bench with little more than a hard point saw and a chisel.

I am not waiting 9 months sir - the Skelton saws are a treat for the future, the bench is being made next week as the timber is being delivered on Tuesday. Well it will at least be started next week but I do have an entire 3 bed house that I have been told needs the skirting fitted next week while I am off work

I actually bought the video series and plans for Richards English style work bench, I quite like it but decided to go for a Paul Sellers inspired design with some inspiration from Richard's bench. What i did enjoy about Richards videos is he shows you some really good "hacks" to get things done without a dedicated tool.... that said I always like an excuse for a new tool