Tape Precision

[Nev Hallam]

I work along side a guy who has issues, to say he's a perfectionist is an understatement, he organises everything, its definitely some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder. He asked to borrow my tape to measure, to measure something he was about to cut, when he said it wouldn't be right anyway as it was just a Stanley tape! We ended up in a discussion with regard to the precision of my tape vs the accuracy of his 5mtr Lufkin. I was actually surprised that when I used my tape along side my 150mm Rabone steel rule the 110mm mark look out a fraction and if I was to become picky there where actually a few imperfections in the print of the millimetres on the Stanley.
All this said we where being ridiculously scrutinous, as both the Lufkin and the Stanley were both perfectly ok for tasks we'd require of them.
But did get me thinking, What would you say was the most accurate of all tape measures? I know Lufkin are good but I don't like the feel or ergonomics of them.
When I googled the most accurate tape measure in the world I got a brand I'd never heard of, Advent.

 

[Dibs-h]

I work along side a guy who has issues, to say he's a perfectionist is an understatement, he organises everything, its definitely some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder. He asked to borrow my tape to measure, to measure something he was about to cut, when he said it wouldn't be right anyway as it was just a Stanley tape! We ended up in a discussion with regard to the precision of my tape vs the accuracy of his 5mtr Lufkin. I was actually surprised that when I used my tape along side my 150mm Rabone steel rule the 110mm mark look out a fraction and if I was to become picky there where actually a few imperfections in the print of the millimetres on the Stanley.
All this said we where being ridiculously scrutinous, as both the Lufkin and the Stanley were both perfectly ok for tasks we'd require of them.
But did get me thinking, What would you say was the most accurate of all tape measures? I know Lufkin are good but I don't like the feel or ergonomics of them.
When I googled the most accurate tape measure in the world I got a brand I'd never heard of, Advent.

For me it's about context. Measuring less than 300mm and I'll use a steel rule which is very accurate, say something like a Rathbone. Measuring bigger than that - say over the 1m mark and I'll use a tape measure, which I accept isn't as accurate, but +/- a few millimetres isn't an issue, because the innacuracy should be consistent. Only likely to go pear shape if you have a few tape measures and use more than one whilst making\doing something.

You guy you mention needs to get out more. :wink:

Add to that we are talking about working in materials that intrinsically aren't stable - so accuarcy to +/1 tenths of mm are wasted.

My 2c worth.

Dibs

 

[Nev Hallam]

True we do need to get out more, however this is the kind of topic regularly bought up whilst on someone else's time!

 

[Schtoo]

The accuracy is irrelevant, so long as YOU use the same tape measure and use it to transfer measurements for your own use.

Start calling out dimensions, and expecting them to be constant when cut by someone else, well, what kind of accuracy are you working to?

However, Lufkin are good tapes, always have been. Stanley, less so. I'd expect 2 different Lufkin tapes to talk to each other better than 2 different Stanley tapes, but not by enough to get all uppity about it.

And it does depend on who's driving the tape measure too.

Stu.

(Who has OCD, but learned two words to combat it. One word of which is inappropriate to be mentioned here...)

 

[Steven]

One of the first things my dad taught me when I laboured for him as a kid always use the same tape to measure on a job, that way as long as you can read it right you will always be the same.

That was after he told me what end of a brush to hold and were to put his tools back.

 

[Jensmith]

I saw a tip which is to start your measurement at the 100mm mark fir great accuracy due to the play at the end of the tape. Depends how accurate you need to be!

 

[knappers]

I always start my reading from 100mm, whether using tape or ruler. Far more accurate and easy to read.

Si

 

[jimi43]

I know it sounds a bit anal but I have the same issues with accuracy.

When I was cleaning the little micrometer from the bootfair today....

....I closed it up and the zero didn't line up with the zero...it was out by a fraction of a thou.

This upset me for some reason so I cleaned the static end of the instrument and it instantly lined up. This pleased me...why I don't know...but it did.

For measuring to build things however....I'm with the general suggestion here....use one (set) of rules and stick with them...I've had my Rabones over 30 years.

Jim

 

[Anonymous]

have been building some counters this week at someone elses work shop full of joiners, christ i don't miss it and i was painfully slow, didn't know where anything was etc etc, anyway I had this same convo with one of the guys and I told him when i was working for a cabinet makers a few years back they used to calibrate our tapes once a week so we were all singing off the same hymn sheet as teams of guys would often work together, and the need for accuracy was a must. for instance if we built cabinets for windsor castle or the V and A museum (which we did) and we are given an overall measurement of say 100m, and each cab was 1m, if we were all out by a mm either way would could be up to 100mm out either way by the time the run ended, The owners expected us to be mm perfect.

i've only have ever used stanley tapes, but they don't make them like they used

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

That play at the end of a tape measure is for a reason. I only use Stanley FaxMax's as I know there fairly accurate for wood work and I know the play in the end is bang on. I like the weight, blade armer, width and the stand out have been quite useful (mostly of poking the dog or her in doors from across the room hehe).

So the play is to make sure whether you measure internal or external, the measurement is correct. Due to the hooks thickness, if it didn't move when you hooked the hook over the end of the thing you're measuring, the measurement read would be different if you just merely butted the hook flush to the surface end.

So when choosing a tape measure you can tell if its of quality by looking at the hook. You want one that has no less than 3 rivets to ensure the movement stays true. Any less rivets and its much more prone to tearing the metal resulting in more movement. Another sign is the movement is only slight, the movement distance should be equal to the thickness of the hook

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

This upset me for some reason so I cleaned the static end of the instrument and it instantly lined up. This pleased me...why I don't know...but it did.

Jimi, it's about time you came to Oz for a little psychotherapy. We have bottles of amber stuff here to cure this ailment of yours ... well, it doesn't actually cure it, but it does help you forget .. what was this all about again ..?

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[jimi43]

This upset me for some reason so I cleaned the static end of the instrument and it instantly lined up. This pleased me...why I don't know...but it did.

Jimi, it's about time you came to Oz for a little psychotherapy. We have bottles of amber stuff here to cure this ailment of yours ... well, it doesn't actually cure it, but it does help you forget .. what was this all about again ..?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Perhaps since I gave up drinking Guinness about three years ago...I am suffering for it...and Oz is on my list of things to do before I snuff it...so just maybe....because anyone who has seen my workshop KNOWS I don't suffer from OCD so it ain't that! :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[tomatwark]

I saw a tip which is to start your measurement at the 100mm mark fir great accuracy due to the play at the end of the tape. Depends how accurate you need to be!

I do this as well, but just remember to read 100mm further along the tape, a former boss of mine forgot to do this on an Oak dresser top once. #-o #-o

At least it was not it was not me.

Tom

 

[bugbear]

I saw a tip which is to start your measurement at the 100mm mark fir great accuracy due to the play at the end of the tape. Depends how accurate you need to be!

I do this as well, but just remember to read 100mm further along the tape, a former boss of mine forgot to do this on an Oak dresser top once. #-o #-o

I use the same trick for precision, and then go over the markings in the "normal" way to make sure I've remembered to allow the extra length.

I've stopped a few errors becoming irrecoverable that way,

BugBear

 

[Argus]

.


I suppose that no commercially mass-produced tape measure is going to be infinitely accurate – that’s obvious.

In reality, tiny errors present along its length are probably immaterial given normal work tolerances; add to that any inaccuracies transferring the mark, pencil line thicknesses etc. and it really boils down to playing safe and using the same rule all the time, as has been said earlier, on the basis that if you have inherent inaccuracies, it’s best to have the same inaccuracies throughout.

This is why when making a piece of furniture or whatever it is, I incline to the old fashioned idea of making a wooden rod first with all the critical measurements on it marked as a scratch line that a marking knife can conveniently locate itself in.
In this way the rule or tape (inaccuracies and all) is used once, the rod double checked, and then the offending rule or tape is retired out of harm’s way.
All the critical components should be excatly the same and the rod is used time and again until it falls to bits or goes in the fire.




.

 

[Schtoo]

What Argus said. Story sticks are very useful.

Case in point, this weekend I had to make a couple bench stretchers. Laid out one and cut it to size. Marked out the length of legs + stretcher, then made the second stretcher to match the same overall dimension with it's legs on the marks.

I don't know how long the second stretcher is, other than it's the perfect length. :wink:

(And thankfully I haven't forgotten how to cut tenon shoulders off the saw, first time. Even then the shoulders are 7" long and you only have 10" worth of saw to do it with... )

Stu.

 

[twothumbs]

Argus is spot on. A rod was standard at one time for many trades ( joiners, brickies (up to 10feet tall!), cabinet makers and so on. It still stands good to this day. I can recall cabinet makers in the seventies using full size paper drawings to work from for built-in furniture, benches, and so.
I recently used a rod for a coffee table and it helps the memory; no need to keep double checking. Thank you Argus.

 

[Argus]

.


An interesting post script to the idea of user-made rods concerns an old table (at least 19th C or even earlier) I saw some years ago in a junk shop in Bristol.

It was beyond repair and I was contemplating buying it for timber because the whole top was lovely quarter sawn stuff. I was on my hands and knees having a look underneath and was puzzling over some marks and lines on the inside of one of the long side aprons. Then I realised that the maker had used one of the side aprons as his rod and finally built it into the table. Sadly the whole thing was shot with worm holes so I left it there.

As far as full sized paper templates go, I made one this week to lay out the tennon cutting angles for a chair seat. Decorators lining paper is ideal for this.

As you will gather I work mainly by hand........


.

 

[JMcK]

( joiners, brickies (up to 10feet tall!), cabinet makers and so on.

Must be very useful being a 10 feet tall bricky. Handy for topping off high walls. :lol: :lol:

 

[Schtoo]

Hah,

My stick is going to be part of the bench top.

I must confess, I also use a stick when I'm boxing things up to ship them out. I have a length of cypress with several lines on it. It's straight and quite strong.

The marks give me cut down lines for the corners of the boxes, the straight edges give me something to fold the cardboard with, so I can make a bigger box smaller. Completely useless to anyone but myself, but so valuable to me I have two of them.

Besides, it's more difficult to misplace a 2' long chunk of wood than a tape measure.

Stu.