Taking my business forward. How and do I need to rethink?

[Mr_P]

Heimlaga but surely thats step 2.

No one invests in that kind of set up unless they are sure there is a market for the product ?

He's done the right thing by starting small and testing the market, if its a success he can increase production.

My rough calculations are 30k / 12 = £2500 he sells at £350 knock off on the high side £100 (he said £25 but other costs paypal etc..) so he needs to sell 10 a month to survive. Biggest current problem is lack of sales maybe its the price, drop it by half but will he sell twice as many ???

 

[flanajb]

Say it all worked perfectly just as you would like it to in whatever capacity that is. Give it 3 years and you will be sick of it and you'll be browsing a Golf forum rather than this one as that will be what you do for fun as concrete molds and steam bending are no longer enjoyable and just another boring production run.

Haha. You know me too well! I do have the attention span of a gnat.

 

[MatthewRedStars]

The website needs tarting up. The shadow effect on the title bar is 'wrong', and the text underneath is fuzzy. Fonts on product pages are too big. Certain things not lining up.

Charging high prices is fine. But the branding has to be bulletproof. Grab an issue of Wallpaper and look at the adverts, that's who you're competing with and you're not on the same page with regard to slickness and branding.

If you charging premium prices you need to pay for top class web design and book some studio times with an experienced product photographer. It's all or nothing. Then get schmoozing Elle Deco, set dressers etc.

I like the products btw!

 

[MusicMan]

+1 to all of the above. I've been an adviser to a number of small spinout companies, and the common failing is not realising that you have to be good at everything to do with the business. As has been said, you need to take finance, sales, marketing, personnel etc (when you get that far) as seriously as you take the product design. Most companies are started by designers/technologists/inventors who do not realise that they are only covering maybe 25% of the company's needs. You won't have all the skills yourself, but you have to have them available though colleagues or service companies etc. and you need to take the as seriously as the product design.

When I was running a small company in the USA, I joined a business discussion/training organisation called The Alternative Board, set up to help small companies over precisely such problems. The group was extraordinarily diverse: hitech scientific instruments, one-woman accountancy shop, a florist, geotech consultant, funeral director, storage and moving company, kitchen cabinet maker. But 80% of our day-to-day business problems were common to us all, and by sharing experience and training we solved many such problems. The most scary thing was that we often had not realised that we had the problems until someone else came up with them.

It can be done if you have the right attitude and commitment, but it takes longer than you think to get everything together, even if you know this rule. I echo those who suggest that you preserve your income by taking on consultancy/contract work while learning and building up your craft business, if that is the way you want to go. And give serious thought to downsizing, as one of your problems will be cash flow, and another will be taking out the second mortgage for investing in the business. After persuading SWMBO that it is a good idea....

Keith

 

[davin]

I would also add that if I was spending that amount of money on a product ( or thinking of enquiring), I would want the website to tell me a bit more about the company and where you are based?

But I would add you are very brave for having a public critique session. I made my own website and it shows that I know very little about website design!

 

[n0legs]

Haha. You know me too well! I do have the attention span of a gnat.

That's something you'll need to address if you want to make a success of this.
Keep your eyes open and your wits about you.
Remember, "from small acorns mighty oaks doth grow"
I wish you the very best of luck.

 

[Rhossydd]

I would want the website to tell me a bit more about the company and where you are based?

+1, in fact it's a legal necessity to have the business contact details on the site (although it's very rarely enforced).

I actually quite like the web site. It's clean design will appeal to the likely clientèle. The photography could be better, but isn't really as bad as some here might imply.
PayPal is actually a good choice to handle payments. Too many people fail to understand that you DON'T need a PayPal account to pay via their portal and it can accept any credit or debit card for payment without needing to set up one of their accounts. That needs setting out on the site.
Using Wordpress has a hidden advantage of delivering a multi platform compliant site that is being seen as a necessity for good ranking by the search engines now.

Where the site is a MAJOR fail is the lack of text. Search engines NEED text to be able to categorise and rank the site. They also like good appropriate keywords built into the page's code in the right fields, plus a good site title too. Goggle have a huge amount of help on their site to enable site authors optimise their site for Google to index, read it and act on it, that will give you the good ranking you need.
Most importantly, make it a good read that will explain why the products are good and enhance their appeal. Good text and good photographs will convert visitors to customers.

 

[beech1948]

"Quote"
So given the above, I need to pull my finger out and try and get my products out there. I have the web site and the facebook page, but as you would expect, neither of these has resulted in a single order and I am at a loss regarding what to do. I don't want this venture to never get off the ground, especially, considering the time, effort and money that I have put in over the last 2 years to come up with products that I feel have potential.

Thats really the question. What do I do next.

You have some products...

You need to test market them. Others and I have suggested a few channels to explore but only you can explore them.
Make a list of channels.
Select those with best "high end" or upmarket branding.
Find their phone numbers and add to list.
When you have the first 10 start calling and try to get through to the buyers or MD for a small company. Make appointments to see them. If YES to appointment then send a letter of thanks confirming meeting, send emailed photos. When you see them remember that you are the head of a small manufacturer and not an oik off the streets.

Use the first 10 meetings to see "WHAT IS THE FIRST REACTIONS AND ADVICE RE MARKETS YOU ARE GIVEN". Do not try to sell, maybe ask if they are interested and what tyhey want to do next. Do not try to sell as it will happen organically if its going to happen.

Go home collate info and call the next 10 with a newly tuned message......you were going to get these ready between visits wern't you.

So thts whats next. Test market, be passionate, be clear and share your vision.

Selling is not the spiv like activity many imagine. A salesmans job is to ascertain what the client wants, judge how he may serve that want and having agreed that you have what they want to ask them to sign the contract. Thats the contract you already have available put together in between test marketing visits.

If you go ahead with this I see quite a lot of travel, hotel time and the need for patience. Even an outright rejection can be turned into a set of questions to find out why, what and how come. Be ready for the rejection as it will happen. Sales is often just a numbers game to find that customer who like what you have.

Selling is a process and nothing special except the more experience you have the easier it is. Your current concept of selling is wrong I am certain. Selling should be about you, your integrity, your likeability your passion, your skill, and matching the client wants.

Consider all of the different types of human there are and each is represented in sales so there is no reason you can not successfully sell.

A journey of a thousand sales begins with a first step.
make list of 10,
call and get appointment
go see
test market

After the first 20 or so you will know in your heart if that market exists.

Branding is everything so consider image, appearance, clarity, names. The Brand tells people what you are. You might try to think of brands you like and write down 5 words you would associate with that brand..just tyo see what they are projecting to you.

Good luck if you go ahead. I suggest without the TEST MARKETING phase you will not make any more progress.

 

[beech1948]

PS

FLANA would be great brand name either for the company or as a range brand for a product line.

 

[shed9]

Interesting read and I will certainly be pilfering some of the advice on here for myself.

My advice for what it's worth and some of it is merely reiterating what others have already stated;

1. Don't despair but the possibility of this turning into a viable business in the timescale you indicate is clearly not viable. Perhaps get some freelance / contract work in order to meet the financial requirements that you have.
2. Sell your products and yourself properly. People that pay this amount of money for designer goods want to know more about their unique product. They want to know why and what makes it unique. They want to know who made it (and sometimes why). Give your back story and explain why you and why your products? I don't get any of this in your website.
3. Get your product in print - A friend of mine got her own simple product in a few good (high end) magazines and turned into a business success almost overnight. Exposure is key but be ready for the traffic in ensuring point number 2 is addressed first.
4. Get your product in the right environments. Try your best to get it into places like Purves & Purves, Heals, designer shops, etc. Yes they are going to screw you in their commission however being realistic they are not going to fly off the shelves leaving you out of pocket and it lets you associate your product with high end retailers, i.e. "as sold in Purves & Purves". It will also massively help you with point number 3.
5. Seek out your local (and national) business and funding assistance;
https://www.dorsetforyou.com/businessadvice
https://www.dorsetforyou.com/article/31 ... an-funding
https://www.gov.uk/browse/business
There will be others and don’t dismiss funding opportunities. There are plenty of small and large schemes which may be relevant to you. They generally expect some output in the form of jobs created and / or safeguarded but it’s certainly worth the phone call to see what is available. They may be able to provide you with some mentoring – this can be a bit hit and miss but at the very least you will get some contacts out of this option.
6. Repeat points 1 through 6.

Lastly - don't be too precious about your ideas or brand at this stage. Be prepared to change names, product design, etc. You can get too fixed on a certain path sometimes and blinker out other options often to the determent of the project. Don't get me wrong, 'm not suggesting that you dismiss your brand but at this early stage be prepared to change direction if it is needed, no matter how small or large a change.

Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[heimlaga]

Heimlaga but surely thats step 2.

No one invests in that kind of set up unless they are sure there is a market for the product ?

He's done the right thing by starting small and testing the market, if its a success he can increase production.

My rough calculations are 30k / 12 = £2500 he sells at £350 knock off on the high side £100 (he said £25 but other costs paypal etc..) so he needs to sell 10 a month to survive. Biggest current problem is lack of sales maybe its the price, drop it by half but will he sell twice as many ???

Yep that is step two...... but reaching step two is a long process......and until step two has been reached the business will not make enough money to support the household of mr and mrs Flanajb.

That is my whole point!

 

[Wizard9999]

You have had a lot of good advice in this thread. but ultimately, as many have said already you only have a business if there is a market for your product, therefore for me the number one issue is this...



I know the shade is different, but other than that the design is very similar to yours, even down to the red flex (which by the way half the concrete desk lamps out there seem to have, so maybe a different colour).

When I shop for things like a desk lamp online I do it through google images, that way I can see something I like before I go to a retailers site. The good news is that if I search on images of "concrete desk lamp" your pictures come up three or four times. The problem is that before I get to your pictures I have seen maybe 15 pictures of the lamp above.

The lamp above won the 2009 Elle Decoration best UK household design award, it has therefore been on sale for 6 years already and had a fair amount of publicity in the type of publications your target clients will read. So I fear that much of the demand for a desk lamp with a concrete base / shade and bent veneered plywood stem in the £300 to £400 price range has most likely already been satisfied.

Terry.

 

[doctor Bob]

Can I ask what the cost of the quartz clock mechanism is, it looks pretty cheap.
I wouldn't pay £300 for a clock which had a cheap mechanism.
This one appears to have a different one to a standard £10 clock, which in my opinion gives it a bit more worth, FYI this is retailing for about £130

 

[custard]

You are one of the most talented designers that I've seen on this forum, and your making skills don't look too bad either! What's more you seem tuned in to the contemporary style that makes your work particularly saleable....

...it would be real shame if someone with your skills and originality hung up their tools

Well spotted Terry and Dr Bob...and more fool me for being so effusive.

 

[Wizard9999]

Well spotted Terry and Dr Bob...and more fool me for being so effusive.

I don't think you should apologise for being positive Custard, I only wish I could be less of a glass half empty person. It is one of the reasons I would never be able to do what Flanajb is trying to do and get of my behind and do something different!

Terry.

 

[flanajb]

I am glad I took the time to post. The comments on here have saved me from a great deal of anguish. My lamp design wad based on the one posted, but I decided to hone the design and in my view make it even more minimalistic. Concrete clicks too were already out there, so I thought I'd make them too.

I think custom concrete sinks and wall tile panels for architects is probably a better option. I am basing my pricing on what I think they are worth and what I want to earn / hour.

I'll be honest and admit that I don't have the energy :-(

I appreciate the honesty from you all.

 

[Woodmonkey]

Interesting thread. Just to chuck my two pennies in, Davin has nailed it with the London design shows, there are a few different ones but these are frequented by the buyers from the top end design stores. I've been to a few of these and your work would definitely stand up against a lot of the stuff on offer. This is a much more professional way in than just cold calling John Lewis etc. I've done some work for a designer I know who regularly does these shows including ones in Paris and Milan and she does very well (or would not continue to do them.) Design junction and TENT London are two off the top of my head.

 

[Lons]

I think custom concrete sinks and wall tile panels for architects is probably a better option. I am basing my pricing on what I think they are worth and what I want to earn / hour.

I'll be honest and admit that I don't have the energy :-(

Hi flanajb

Energy is very definitely a prerequisite whatever you do in setting up and running a business. Without that you haven't a prayer. Your alternative products still need to be sold.

How did you come to the decision "what I think they are worth" btw ?

I know and have encountered many people with good ideas and the usual talk of determination, enthusiasm etc but who in reality failed to put in the legwork and effort. Building your own business means that it's with you 24 hours a day, you'll sleep on something and wake up writing the idea on a pad, you'll constantly be looking at the competition and for ideas and foreverlooking at your efforts in a very critical manner. Believe me, energy is something you can't do without unless you are extremely lucky.

It was mentioned earlier that it could become a chore and that is also a real risk, happened to me at one stage.

 

[flanajb]

I think custom concrete sinks and wall tile panels for architects is probably a better option. I am basing my pricing on what I think they are worth and what I want to earn / hour.

I'll be honest and admit that I don't have the energy :-(

Hi flanajb

Energy is very definitely a prerequisite whatever you do in setting up and running a business. Without that you haven't a prayer. Your alternative products still need to be sold.

How did you come to the decision "what I think they are worth" btw ?

I know and have encountered many people with good ideas and the usual talk of determination, enthusiasm etc but who in reality failed to put in the legwork and effort. Building your own business means that it's with you 24 hours a day, you'll sleep on something and wake up writing the idea on a pad, you'll constantly be looking at the competition and for ideas and foreverlooking at your efforts in a very critical manner. Believe me, energy is something you can't do without unless you are extremely lucky.

It was mentioned earlier that it could become a chore and that is also a real risk, happened to me at one stage.

Hi Lons, for me the process started as follows.

I became interested in GFRC (much more prevalent in the US and Aus) and started researching using it to make furniture. As pointed out above, the lamp and other offerings where already being made, but like anything in life, you don't just stop pursuing an idea just because it is already being done. I looked at the lamp and though "very nice, but I can refine the design and make it look much sleeker". Whilst my design is similar, the differences are quite major. LED lamp rather than bulb, flex is integrated into the rear of the arm, switch removed from the base ....

I digress, but my price is based on the hours and I mean hours spent over the last 2 years formulating a process for making the lamps and clocks. I have made master forms only for them to be destroyed by polyurethane rubber bonding to it. I have had more castings go in the bin whilst coming up with a mix design that works. Things like. 0% or 10% or 20% ground blast furnace slag. How about a 0.28 water / cement ratio. Ordinary portland cement from the builders merchant vs pure portland from Wales.

The list goes on and on. I probably sound like I am getting frustrated in trying to justify why they are priced at the cost they are, but is the work I have put in to date not factored in?

On a totally different topic, but regarding price. i read an article on a US forum regarding concrete furniture where a maker asked "how much can I charge for this concrete table?" The reply was an eye opener and so true. It read "market it as a concrete table for $100 OR a bespoke artisan ... and charge $1000. Your choice."

I think this comment is valid across all markets spectrums. Is a $10 pair of jeans from Primark really 1/8th of the quality of Levis. It's all in the branding and I am following that same principle.

 

[flanajb]

I am going to stick my head up from the parapet here. So I see a lamp design in the market and decide to change it as follows.

1) LED lamp with driver integrated into base
2) switch is on flex rather than base
3) Concrete is acid etched so as to expose sand particles
4) White cement and walnut or grey cement and maple
5) Flex is not visible as it is routed into the back of the arm

Designers take inspiration from other designs out there. If we didn't, there would only be one of everything on sale.

Before I am accused of plagiarism, take a moment to ask yourselves "are my ideas influenced in anyway by others I have seen or are they 100% mine?" If so, then commend you.

Disappointed that just because I base a design on something else out there the word plagiarist starts being bantered about.