Tailstock fittigs

[winemaker]

This may be a daft question, I have a Record CL2 the Tailstock is hollow.I have a revolving center and Jacobs chuck on a m1 taper that do not revolve but I have noticed on a few videos they have revolving chuck fitted to the Tailstock. How do they do that :mrgreen:

 

[CHJ]

Scroll down to the bottom of this page.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue ... ccessories

 

[woodndrum]

In my experience (limited) it is more common practice to mount a Jacobs Chuck with a drill in the tailstock and the workpiece rotates against the stationery tool which can be advanced with the quill. On occasion a drill Chuck could be mounted in the headstock in order to spin a sanding flap wheel or similar. Often then with close up photos it can be confusing to see which end or side of the lathe is being pictured.

 

[CHJ]

In my experience (limited) it is more common practice to mount a Jacobs Chuck with a drill in the tailstock and the workpiece rotates against the stationery tool which can be advanced with the quill. On occasion a drill Chuck could be mounted in the headstock in order to spin a sanding flap wheel or similar. Often then with close up photos it can be confusing to see which end or side of the lathe is being pictured.

Rotating chucks in tailstocks are not uncommon, they come into play when you want to give some better support for long items when a rotating centre is not appropriate.

 

[woodndrum]

Live centre in the tailstock yes of course, silly me. I read the post and thought the OP was referring to a powered rotation. I can often grab the wrong end of the stick, family laugh all day!

 

[Bodrighy]

On occasion a drill Chuck could be mounted in the headstock in order to spin a sanding flap wheel or similar.

Be very careful doing this. I do it by holding the Jacobs chuck in the scroll chuck, not inserting it directly into the morse taper which could be potentially dangerous as it has been know to fly out . Not something I would personally do.

Pete

 

[winemaker]

On occasion a drill Chuck could be mounted in the headstock in order to spin a sanding flap wheel or similar.

Be very careful doing this. I do it by holding the Jacobs chuck in the scroll chuck, not inserting it directly into the morse taper which could be potentially dangerous as it has been know to fly out . Not something I would personally do.

Pete

Thanks a good safety point

 

[Spindle]

Be very careful doing this. I do it by holding the Jacobs chuck in the scroll chuck, not inserting it directly into the morse taper which could be potentially dangerous as it has been know to fly out .

Hi

In my experience, provided things are in balance and there is some component of the tool force tending to seat the morse taper, (sanding against a disc / drilling etc.), it will not dislodge. If I have any concerns I can always bring the tailstock up very close to but not touching whatever is attached to the taper.

Fitting the Jacobs chuck to a scroll chuck would involve fitting a parallel shank to the Jacobs chuck and swapping it for a taper shank for use in the tailstock - I prefer to retain the integrity of the Jacobs chuck and it's associated taper.

Edited to add - I, and I'm sure many other members, use sanding drums in a pillar drill, ie no component of the force tending to seat the taper, I have never had the chuck in my pillar drill work loose from it's taper.

Regards Mick

 

[Bodrighy]

Be very careful doing this. I do it by holding the Jacobs chuck in the scroll chuck, not inserting it directly into the morse taper which could be potentially dangerous as it has been know to fly out .

Hi

In my experience, provided things are in balance and there is some component of the tool force tending to seat the morse taper, (sanding against a disc / drilling etc.), it will not dislodge. If I have any concerns I can always bring the tailstock up very close to but not touching whatever is attached to the taper.

Fitting the Jacobs chuck to a scroll chuck would involve fitting a parallel shank to the Jacobs chuck and swapping it for a taper shank for use in the tailstock - I prefer to retain the integrity of the Jacobs chuck and it's associated taper.

Regards Mick

Sanding would be done at a slower speed and IME the pressure you put on the chuck isn't enough to guarantee that it will stay in place whereas holding it in a chuck, despite the fact that the shank is tapered is far safer. I speak from experience but by all means do it your way, just be aware of the possible problem. A Jacobs chuck with a sanding disc could be painful if it comes out even at slow speed. Whichever method you use just take care. Personally I have a dedicated disc I made with a tenon on it and use sticky back abrasive discs now which is better still.

Pete

 

[Spindle]

holding it in a chuck, despite the fact that the shank is tapered is far safer.

Hi Pete

Each to his own but I'll not be advocating gripping a morse taper in a scroll chuck. :shock:

However the practice may explain the tendancy for your tapers to not 'hold'

Regards Mick

 

[CHJ]

Taper fittings held in a headstock should never be used for any purpose that does not provide a positive forced means of location, a standard drive centre used for spindle turning is maintained in place by the pressure of the tailstock centre.
Any taper fitting used to drive chucks etc. should be held in place with a dedicated draw bar through the headstock spindle, even when subjected to drilling loads, which on the face of it would appear to force the taper tighter, they can be dislodged by a binding drill and pull the taper out of the headstock.

If you are lucky the chuck and taper just drops on the lathe bed as it's stopped rotating, if you're not lucky it is driven by centrifugal force as it exits the spindle in ever growing circles whilst you reach with the other hand for the off switch, with the possibility of it being launched together with any sharp/broken drills etc. looking for something convenient to impinge.

Using sanding drums on a pillar drill may be acceptable as the only thing that can happen at the lower machine speeds is that the chuck and anything it is holding just drops onto the table before the taper clears the spindle completely.

 

[Bodrighy]

Taper fittings held in a headstock should never be used for any purpose that does not provide a positive forced means of location, a standard drive centre used for spindle turning is maintained in place by the pressure of the tailstock centre.
Any taper fitting used to drive chucks etc. should be held in place with a dedicated draw bar through the headstock spindle, even when subjected to drilling loads, which on the face of it would appear to force the taper tighter, they can be dislodged by a binding drill and pull the taper out of the headstock.

If you are lucky the chuck and taper just drops on the lathe bed as it's stopped rotating, if you're not lucky it is driven by centrifugal force as it exits the spindle in ever growing circles whilst you reach with the other hand for the off switch, with the possibility of it being launched together with any sharp/broken drills etc. looking for something convenient to impinge.

Using sanding drums on a pillar drill may be acceptable as the only thing that can happen at the lower machine speeds is that the chuck and anything it is holding just drops onto the table before the taper clears the spindle completely.

Think you are agreeing with me Chas so thanks. I have had a look at my Jacobs chuck and the last 1/2" on the shank is not tapered so when held in the chuck it is being held properly. Perhaps made for this purpose?

Pete

 

[Spindle]

even when subjected to drilling loads, which on the face of it would appear to force the taper tighter, they can be dislodged by a binding drill and pull the taper out of the headstock.

If you are lucky the chuck and taper just drops on the lathe bed as it's stopped rotating, if you're not lucky it is driven by centrifugal force as it exits the spindle in ever growing circles whilst you reach with the other hand for the off switch, with the possibility of it being launched together with any sharp/broken drills etc. looking for something convenient to impinge.

Hi

Attention grabbing scenario, (one has to wonder why this scenario is not a consideration on pillar drills), but I'm not sure how it could actually occur - after all there is pressure being applied to the taper in order to perform the drilling operation, should the drill 'grab' and unseat the taper, (unlikely IMO when drilling into wood), I don't understand where the three inches or so of clearance comes from to allow the Jacobs chuck to fall from the headstock, the work should still be in place.

Also, when using a sanding disc I would imagine others do as I and rest the work on the tool rest which will retain the chuck in the headstock should the taper not hold. (Though I think sometime in the future I will adopt Pete's method by making a couple of dedicated Velcro and MFD tenoned sanding discs for use in a chuck).

Anyhow, as I said - each to his own

Regards Mick

 

[CHJ]

..
Attention grabbing scenario, (one has to wonder why this scenario is not a consideration on pillar drills), but I'm not sure how it could actually occur - after all there is pressure being applied to the taper in order to perform the drilling operation, should the drill 'grab' and unseat the taper, (unlikely IMO when drilling into wood), I don't understand where the three inches or so of clearance comes from to allow the Jacobs chuck to fall from the headstock, the work should still be in place. ...

.....
Using sanding drums on a pillar drill may be acceptable as the only thing that can happen at the lower machine speeds is that the chuck and anything it is holding just drops onto the table before the taper clears the spindle completely.

I think if you had used my full post in your quote you would have answered your own thought regarding a pillar drill.

 

[Spindle]

Hi Chas

Fully read, understood and agree your point re sanding drums in pillar drills - my point was that similar circumstances exist when drilling on the lathe in that the work is in place and will prevent the taper disengaging fully. Hence quoting your response referencing drilling on the lathe.

Regards Mick

 

[CHJ]

Hi Chas

Fully read, understood and agree your point re sanding drums in pillar drills - my point was that similar circumstances exist when drilling on the lathe in that the work is in place and will prevent the taper disengaging fully. Hence quoting your response referencing drilling on the lathe.

Regards Mick

You occasionally see quoted "drilling hand held pieces" with a headstock mounted drill.
In this scenario there is no positive location of the piece, a person new to turning not aware of the risks involved with using a non captive taper can be in serious trouble in the ensuing panic mode.
Neither is there any positive location for someone using sanding drums or flap wheels with such a Morse taper only mounted 'Jacobs' chuck.

There is no need for this practise, Morse taper shanks are available in both imperial and metric retention thread versions and a short length of threaded rod and suitable nut and washer are cheap to obtain.

 

[Mark Hancock]

You occasionally see quoted "drilling hand held pieces" with a headstock mounted drill.
In this scenario there is no positive location of the piece, a person new to turning not aware of the risks involved with using a non captive taper can be in serious trouble in the ensuing panic mode.
Neither is there any positive location for someone using sanding drums or flap wheels with such a Morse taper only mounted 'Jacobs' chuck.

There is no need for this practise, Morse taper shanks are available in both imperial and metric retention thread versions and a short length of threaded rod and suitable nut and washer are cheap to obtain.

Except when you don't have a hollow headstock spindle :?:

My solution has always been to hold the Jacobs chuck in a scroll chuck using parallel jaws (Mick O'Donnell) to hold the Jacobs chuck body.

 

[Spindle]

My solution has always been to hold the Jacobs chuck in a scroll chuck using parallel jaws (Mick O'Donnell) to hold the Jacobs chuck body.

Hi

Has it occurred to you that your method of retaining the chuck is 'tending' to loosen it's hold?

Just a thought

Regards Mick

 

[Mark Hancock]

My solution has always been to hold the Jacobs chuck in a scroll chuck using parallel jaws (Mick O'Donnell) to hold the Jacobs chuck body.

Hi

Has it occurred to you that your method of retaining the chuck is 'tending' to loosen it's hold?

Just a thought

Regards Mick

Sorry Mick, being thick here, but don't understand what you are saying

 

[CHJ]

....

Sorry Mick, being thick here, but don't understand what you are saying

Mark, assuming you are referring to a 'standard' keyed 'jacobs' style chuck, as you are gripping the actuating sleeve of the chuck, which is rotating towards you in an anti-clockwise direction in use.
Any turning loads applied to a drill etc. mounted in its jaws is trying to move the jaws and the body in a clockwise direction, which, if it happens will undo the chuck jaws.

You may be getting away with it because your clamping of the actuating sleeve is distorting it enough to grip the body of the chuck.