Table saw restoration - worth doing?

[alan895]

Hi all,

I wonder if I can call upon those who are in the know about old power tools…

Earlier this week I picked up this seeming old table saw:

It’s a Royal brand as per the pictures and despite its appearance its in a remarkably good working condition. Sadly the internet whilst having a few pictures of similar models sold on eBay is devoid of any information about them. I bought it with the intention of using it as a first real attempt at machine restoration both cosmetically and mechanically and also with some new parts but I was hoping that I can get some advice before I begin to spend my time and money on it. What I would really like to know is:

1. The motor on the back is rated at 3/4hp - is it worth replacing it with something with a bit more power?
2. Does anyone have a good source for a replacement motor drive belt as the existing one has seen better days?
3. Lastly and purely for my own nostalgic interest can anyone put a manufacturing date on this machine ?

Here’s my biggest concern though: the motor is actually fixed at the back and it doesn’t tilt with the blade.

No problem if all I was going to do is cut at 90 degrees however the law of the sod states at some point I will need to do a 45 degree bevel cut which it wont do as it is without the belt coming off. Can anyone say whether this was the case with all these saws or have I been lucky enough to find an exception?

It’s a really nice unit which has been well looked after over the years, I have a TS200 at present and would like to replace it with this one but with the above I'm not sure if its viable / worth doing. I would really appreciate any advice anyone can offer on this one.


Thanks in advance

Alan

 

[wizard]

I have been looking at a Sutton that works on the same drive principle as yours but as soon as you tilt it, it throws the belt. The only way i can see this working is if it had a round belt. Do you have the top for it?.

 

[bugbear]

The branding "Royal" is on a small casting, and the quadrant markings, but NOT the main casting.

This makes me suspect it was an OEM deal. If I'm right, the same saw may exist under other names, which might bring more information.

BugBear

 

[Jamesc]

Hi Alan,

In answer to your first question I would say it is definately worth restoring, it looks to be a nice bit of kit.

With regards the belts any bearing suppliers should be able to help. If you are anywhere near Southampton then I have found these guys to be pretty helpful https://http://www.solent-bearings.co.uk/

With regards the motor I am sure someone with more knowledge will be along soon but I would get the saw up together with a decent blade and try it. The motor is easy enough to swap out later.

James

 

[twothumbs]

I think Royal may have been sold by Proops who closed some years ago. Anyone in London remember them? They sold lots of arbours, pulleys, and odd bits and pieces. A good enough machine I would have thought and well worth 'doing up'.. Best wishes.

 

[alan895]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies so far.

Wizard - yes I do have the cast iron top which is in an equally good condition as the rest of the saw, I've done a quick check on how flat it is and I cant find any high/low spots at all. Its a shame that it doesn't have the standard 3/4" mitre slots but I can probably do something about this later if I decide to go ahead.

Bugbear - that thought did cross my mind, hopefully someone will be able to recognise it and provide an alternative.

Jamesc - thanks for tip RE the drive belt (and Wizard too), I'll give them a call and see what they suggest. Before I took it home it was "put to the test" with a square piece of 1/2 thick oak and a fairly sharp 24t Trend blade and it didn't seem to have much of a problem coping with that. I'll put it all back together this weekend and run some bigger bits to see how it copes.


Please keep any thoughts and useful information coming!

Thanks

Alan

 

[nathandavies]

it's a pretty little thing. shine her up get her going. is it gold or is that just how the pictures look to me?

 

[wizard]

this is a sutton

 

[wallace]

Them handles will come up a treat with some buffing compound. Don't forget to do a wip with lots of pics.

 

[JustBen]

No it's rubbish. I'm happy to come and take it off your hands for you..... No charge

 

[wizard]

No it's rubbish. I'm happy to come and take it off your hands for you..... No charge

its mine i saw it first

 

[Eric The Viking]

Is it possible that at some point the motor arrangement has been bodged?
It looks as though the motor ought to tilt with the arbor.

Nice bit of kit though.

 

[wizard]

Is it possible that at some point the motor arrangement has been bodged?
It looks as though the motor ought to tilt with the arbor.

Nice bit of kit though.

no they were built like that. i thought that when i first saw one.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Is it possible that at some point the motor arrangement has been bodged?
It looks as though the motor ought to tilt with the arbor.

Nice bit of kit though.

no they were built like that. i thought that when i first saw one.

Interesting.

As discussed, with a round belt profile, you'd get away with the twist. I still think it may be a later motor though. If you wanted that system to work well, the motor needs to have its pulley closer to its mounting plate (I mean further left in the picture above).

It would work OK with the belt twisted or slightly offset, but not nicely if twisted and offset simultaneously.

Is there provision to slide the motor along the mounting? I can see the 'gravity-driven' belt tensioner!

E.

 

[alan895]

nathandavies - there is a little bit of a gold tint to it and eventually I'll try to find some paint to match rather than use a boring "machine grey".

EtV - as Wizard says its how it always was, the motor can move along its mount by an inch or so but nowhere near enough. I think a new plan is needed…


I've spent a couple of hours today tinkering around with it and giving it a good blow-out with the air nozzle outside in the cold - underneath some caked on grime there were one or two rust patches on the inside of the base which I've treated, the underside of the table was quite messy but was little match for a pan scourer, a lot of the fixing bolts are rusty which I suppose given its age is to be expected but I'll treat them later or buy replacements. I will do a more thorough clean eventually but my plan for today was to take care of the worst of it. After all of that I attached it to its little makeshift stand and put the top back on:

I was itching to fire it up but had lost my iPhone note I'd made about the wiring however it wasn't too difficult in the end to figure it out (thanks Google). By the way the switch is an old "Startet" with a funny mechanism inside to keep the switch engaged but would remain so if there was a power cut. The motor takes approx. 6 seconds to get up to its full speed.

As already mentioned I was a bit concerned over the motor's 3/4hp power so I did a test with various materials & thicknesses. Using the sharpest blade available it had little problem with some pine and 2x4's on the provision that I moved the work through the blade s-l-o-w-l-y, with MDF it did noticeably struggle with anything more than 9mm thick and virtually stopped dead when I tried 18mm, with plywood the same thing happened. I also tried some 1x1 oak and some small squares of maple which again if I moved the piece slowly it was okay.

With that all said I think I've come to a few decisions / conclusions:
1. Completely new wiring and NVR switch needed
2. A more powerful motor is an absolute must
3. Look at what options there are to tilt the motor with the arbour.

Thanks to all who have contributed so far - please keep 'em coming as I'm going to need as much help as I can get on this.

Cheers
Alan

 

[dickm]

Are you sure that is the original motor mounting and motor? Several reasons for asking. One, there used to be ads for the Royal in the back of Woodworker, and I'm pretty sure the pics looked quite a bit different from what you have. I'll see if I can dig out some original pics and possibly a review in an old mag. Two, the fact that the pulley is so far off in line - surely it wouldn't be built like that? Three, the construction of the mounting plate - it's much less heavy and looks a bit bodged compared to the rest of the machine, which is solid. Lastly, that motor; it looks like one that used to be made by Hoover, of washing machine infamy. They tended to be sold off by "surplus" dealers for use on homemade stuff, and not generally used by OEMs.
But for a blade of that size, 3/4 hp is definitely going to be on the puny side. 1.5-2 hp would be more useable.

 

[wizard]

If it has a 10” blade it will need at least a 1hp motor better if its 1 ½. If I buy the one I have been looking at i am going to fit a round belt when tilted.

 

[wizard]

Just bought a newer tin version of the Sutton and fitted a round belt when its tilted and it works ok. I have a swivel base off a vive i may fit to the motor so i can use the vee belt, but first i will have to make a riving knife and guard

 

[JustBen]

Hmmm. That doesn't sound right about the motor.

My table saw has a 3/4hp motor turning an 8" blade but have used a 10" blade and it cut through 90mm oak/beech/mahogany no problem.

 

[alan895]

Having given a bit of thought about this I might buy a cheap second hand contractor saw and cull the motor from that to use on this one, that way I'll have the necessary power and I wont have to worry about electrics.

DickM - would be great if you had any reviews on this thing or any further info you've mentioned and yes it is a Hoover motor.

Wizard - thanks for the pic, that's a big help to see what's possible on a fixed mounted motor.


Alan