Table saw advice - one more time !

[Topaz]

Like many posters here, I am looking for a new table saw.
I have a good quality rail/circular saw system but that is not good for smaller objects, where it is better/safer to keep the tool fixed and move the workpiece.

Can anyone tell me if the Charnwood W614 really is a notch above the Ferm/etc range?
I am attracted by
- the relatively large table with folding extensions,
- the stand (??),
- but especially the belt drive.
That gives me the idea that it can be tuned - and with a high-quality blade it could become a good amateur system.

I am not a busy pro so I can spend time setting up if that leads to good results.

Any comments or experiences?

 

[Gary S]

Hi Topaz,

I suspect you will get a similar response to me on this link:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=16750

I can't comment on the Charnwood because I haven't seen / used it but I suspect for the price (£150) and the spec the general view will be DON'T BOTHER!!

The opinions on the forum (which I fully agree with now having given it some thought!) were that it is simply not worth buying a cheap table saw, ESPECIALLY if you have a half decent circular saw and guide.

Unless you're going to go for a £500+ model with cast iron and accurate fences you're probably better of sticking with what you've got.

If, like me, you had the NEED to just buy another tool then i'm sure there are plenty of others out there for you to 'invest' in :wink:

Hope that helps,

Cheers

Gary

 

[Colin C]

Hi Topaz

Which saw and rail do you have as this might help us give you some ideas on getting over cutting small bit safely.

Does it start with a F :wink:

 

[Topaz]

Great, I was beginning to wonder what I had said wrong :wink:

I respect Gary's point and I know that is "current thinking" but the jump to £500 is just too far.
So that gets me interested in Colin's offer of advice.
First the first letter is an H, standing for Holz-Her. Bought in Germany, excellant in my view.
Second, for example I have a blank measuring about 6x6x30 (cms), and I want to reduce it to 3x4x30. I cannot even see that under the base plate of the saw !
Do you have a idea Colin ? Can you save me £170 ?

PS
Have recently Internet-studied how to cut long thin laths to plank canoes, because of the interesting CS / TS discussion. The best advice was a CS, not a TS, but then the length is a help and a serious trestle and plank set-up was required to support the stock.

 

[Gary S]

Second, for example I have a blank measuring about 6x6x30 (cms), and I want to reduce it to 3x4x30.

Band saw?

Of course, if you don't have one then this won't save you £170!!

Cheers

Gary

 

[Colin C]

Hi Topaz

Can you post a picture of your saw/rail system and I will see what I can come up with that could be safe for you but I was thinking along the lines of the Ez Bridge.

With a simple stop and if you can get the cut, you can cut half way and turn the block over.

I hope that is clear

Ps It would help we could see you saw/rail and Scrit has said Holz-Her was a good make.

Ask if you need any more help.

Good luck[/url]

 

[RogerS]

.
Second, for example I have a blank measuring about 6x6x30 (cms), and I want to reduce it to 3x4x30. I cannot even see that under the base plate of the saw !
.

If this is the tpe of size of stock that you're working with then I'd not use a tablesaw but a bandsaw like thisone from Axminster.

But if you're heart is set on a table saw then yes - I'd go for something small and budget priced. My first table saw was from Ryobi and cost £90 IIRC. It did fine.

 

[Topaz]

The HolzHer rail system is shown in the following link
http://www.alphametal.be/Hout%20Invalcirkelzagen.htm
The text is in Dutch but the photo should say the proverbial words.

It shows a plunge saw; mine is a standard type.
The text says that the rail is F***o compatible. No, actually it says that the saw can be used on F***o rails (not sure this is the same thing).

Have watched a few EZ-Bridge videos. A good idea, the lifting bit, using the rail as a clamp.
But the whole thing looks very complicated and I doubt if all those moving parts (adjusting clamps on the accessories) are good for accuracy.
Don't you think he is a bit casual, especially with fingers near the saw blade . . . ?
Thanks for your help.

 

[Slim]

The HolzHer rail system is shown in the following link
http://www.alphametal.be/Hout%20Invalcirkelzagen.htm

That's a Festool in disguise, isn't it?

 

[Colin C]

Hi Topaz

Dino can seem a bit casual but I have the EZ rails and should be getting a Bridge any time soon ( win in a competion )

The Bridge is safe and easy to use from what I have seen ( try looking on the Sawmill forum ), they are a few pro's using the same thing and are have no problems with accuracy.

I understand what you mean but it also depends on how well it is made and the same can be said for the lower end TS's

I hope you find the best way to get it done

 

[Dave S]

I agree about some of the videos. I think he could do more to demonstrate accuracy and repeatability than a distant shot measured using a tape measure.

I've just ordered a rail and bridge, so I should be able to post my own experiences in due course.

Dave

 

[Colin C]

I agree about some of the videos. I think he could do more to demonstrate accuracy and repeatability than a distant shot measured using a tape measure.

I've just ordered a rail and bridge, so I should be able to post my own experiences in due course.

Dave

Hi Dave

Sorry to say but I should have the rest of my Bridge in the next few day as the small rails came today but the Bridge is not with me yet.

 

[Topaz]

First let me say that as a newbie here I really appreciate and find very interesting this thread. Thanks all.

Question about TS:
Can someone explain why occasionally there is a flag raised for site saws.
I can see the positive sides:
- big, may be induction, motor (power, low noise),
- belt drive (less vibration, safe (?) jamming),
- large diameter blade (deeper cuts),
- fence (not sure, but you could add the Axminster).

But the big con must be the table material; how can pressed steel be anything like as good as aluminium - let alone cast iron.
Isn't this the/a major factor for accuracy?

 

[Topaz]

Sorry to post rapidly twice to this thread but this does seem a different topic.

Very interested in the EZ systems but the parts are just bewildering.
Bearing in mind my 'accurate cutting of small workpieces' requirement, can Colin or Dave or someone give a "roadmap" to a basic package and a sensible extension path? (Have visited Sawmill but that just adds to the confusion :? )

Is it available in Europe/UK or do we have to import it ourselves?
TIA.

 

[Dave S]

First of all, there is no importer for EZ tools, so you have to import yourself. That means that the cost of shipping has to be added to the prices you see. VAT and Import Duty are also due on the items and although some people are lucky enough not to get charged for them, it's probably better to assume that you will be.

It is quite confusing to see all the bits and pieces on the website and in the videos, not least because the whole system is evolving at quite a rate. I don't have mine yet, so cannot give you the benefit of any experience yet.

I think Colin C has had the guide rail and cabinetmaker since last year, so he would be in a better position to advise on ripping narrow pieces. I think there are one or two other owners on the forum too.

I use quite a bit of sheet material in my projects, and this was a major consideration in my own choice. With another built in wardrobe, study furniture, bookcase and a kitchen on the 'to do list', I can see it getting plenty of use for sheet material alone. Seeing some of the power benches on SawmillCreek convinced me that a power bench / bridge setup would handle pretty much all my needs including cross-cutting of timber. Hope I'm right!

Dave

 

[RogerS]

Question about TS:
Can someone explain why occasionally there is a flag raised for site saws.
I can see the positive sides:
- big, may be induction, motor (power, low noise),
- belt drive (less vibration, safe (?) jamming),
- large diameter blade (deeper cuts),
- fence (not sure, but you could add the Axminster).

But the big con must be the table material; how can pressed steel be anything like as good as aluminium - let alone cast iron.
Isn't this the/a major factor for accuracy?

Good questions. Here's my take.

First of all you soon realise that the depth and breadth of experience and advice on this forum can also be a disadvantage in its' own right ! There are people here do this for a living and to them time is definitely money. So things like repeatability and ease of setting up may be of more importance to them than to say someone like myself who is an enthusiastic dabbler. That's not to say I don't have aspirations :wink: So the advice coming from this quarter may well aim at the 'high' end but it is nevertheless very valid...you just have to take it in the context of the person who is giving the advice.

A TS and a site saw are two different beasts. Portability in a site saw springs to mind as perhaps being more important than, say, a cast iron top.

I started off with a Ryobi 1125 (IIRC) table saw. My immediate need was to trim to width some oak floorboards that I was laying in my house. It fulfilled that role admirably and it was cheap (under £100 IRC). Was it accurate down to fractions of a millimetre? No but then it didn't need to be. Did the aluminium top cause me any problems? No as the oak was supported at either end on roller stands. Noisy? Yes but heh...it's not on 24/7.

When I did up my flat in london, it went in the boot of my RX8..now that is a seriously luggage-capacity challenged car. But it did the job and I trimmed down yet more oak floorboards.

Then it came back to the workshop and I started doing more sheet stuff. Definitely not up to the job really. Just not large enough working area. So I addressed that by getting a Festool TS55 and guide rail so that was that problem cracked.

Nonetheless, fiddling with the fence...ie having to measure the width of the cut everytime with a tape was a pain in the proverbial. So then I saw this for sale on eBay....

induction motor...very quiet. One of the things that attracted me to it was that it had humungously huge extension tables at the rear and at the side...easily take an 8x4 sheet...but old habits die hard and I still use the Festool for cutting up sheets, the extension tables are not fitted simply because they take up too much space. The cast iron top...well, yes, it just sits there. I can thump down a huge slab of ash weighing 30-40kg and it doesn't budge. That's nice. It's a solid professional bit of kit meant to be used day in day out. It will even take a d...ssh :-# and I've got one but it's still in its' box. The sliding table is magic.

BUT...
...it does take up a lot of room
...I should have bought a saw with a larger diameter blade

That's my two-pennorth

 

[Colin C]

Hi Topaz

If you are looking at the EZ as well.

I would say to start with SGS-114 as with the 64" rail it can be used for cutting across a 4 foot sheet, plus together you have the extra to cut a full sheet as well

I would add the Square but can you give a better idea of the type of cuts you are thinking of doing.

I also have the smart table and would say you cant go wrong in getting one.

Ps If you have then

 

[Andy Pullen]

Roger, without trying to go off topic i am intrigued by the clear cyclone in your photograph. Do you have any details about it. Regards Andy

 

[RogerS]

Roger, without trying to go off topic i am intrigued by the clear cyclone in your photograph. Do you have any details about it. Regards Andy

Andy - I started a new thread here

 

[Topaz]

Colin, the first EZ YouTube link you posted is very interesting (shows cutting a "tapered dado") because it is such a small piece.
But:
- why doesn't the (long) rail twist/sag on the unsupported side away from the workpiece ?
- why doesn't the saw push the workpiece out of position?
I suppose by friction but that does not sound as reliable as some sort of fence.

This set up is very similar to my original question in this thread; thus my interest and I'm wondering if I can adapt my HolzHer rails. . .
(Long ago I bought a second short rail, meaning to make a T-rail/Square with it. Dino got there first !)