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Steve Jobs on making stuff

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condeesteso

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I'm late coming to his biography but was just given a copy. I was flicking the pages for no real reason and the book opened itself here, p133
"From his father Jobs had learned that a hallmark of passionate craftsmanship is making sure that even the aspects that will remain hidden are done beautifully."
Odd that the book would open itself right there. I don't expect everyone to agree with this. It is not entirely sensible, practical, economic.
But then Steve Jobs was one of a tiny number of very significant men in my lifetime - so I tend to pay attention.
 

gregmcateer

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It's in an interseting read, about an interesting man, even if at times he was a complete and utter bullying b'strd!
Enjoy the read.
Greg
 

condeesteso

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yes Greg - I have heard he was troublesome, and family life was 'untidy'. I look forward to the read though, I find obsessive people very interesting.
 

Chems

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Jobs was blown out of proportion by the success of iThings, he wasn't actually such a visionary, he stole quite a few ideas and openly admits it. He didn't actually have a technical talent like other big tech gods, but he was talented at the overall vision and bringing other ideas together in a way not seen before, and for that I think he deserves a lot of the praise he receives but its a shame people don't know the true visionaries behind such milestones as GUI and the mouse. Beyond the technical side of things I think his outlook of destroying all competition was not a good one for us the consumer, and it was a shame that he waited to have surgery as it may have bought him a few more years, he died right at the pinnacle of apples achievements which is sad even if your not a Jobs/Apple fan. But its a true statement that the last 20 years would have looked very different in the tech world without Steve Jobs.
 

Kalimna

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Chems - a very succinct summary of the man. I think that, as you say, without Apple iThings, the world would look a lot different today. But iThings only happened because Bill Gates made the software that drove the hardware that allowed such technology to work at a non-prohibitive cost.
Adam
 

gus3049

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Its a good thing Steve Jobs wasn't French.

He would have been driven mad if he got involved with woodwork. The bits that show are immaculate but look underneath or behind and the average English craftsman would be shocked to the core. I recently posted a little desk that I restored and all the unseen bits were made of cheap wood straight off the saw, usually just nailed in place - made taking it apart easy though.

Jobs might not have been technically brilliant but his talent was spotting the idea and running with it. I suspect his reputation for, shall we say, tetchiness, was all about the obsessive pursuit of his vision. If he was a nice, good or just plain horrid person is down to speculation or third hand reports - unless you knew him personally of course.

This is one of the big problems with our society. So many firmly held opinions seem based on media reports and heresay. Maybe in Jobs' case its his own fault as he is one of those who helped mould the way we live nowadays.

I for one am grateful to him. He, along with all the others who produce Apple products, have bought an appreciation of good industrial design to many people. It seems strange that all those who criticise him, such as the nay sayers about the iPad before it hit the market, will rush out and buy a cheaper version when Apple create yet another market that was 'a waste of space' and 'can't see the point'. If Apple entered an existing market, it was because they thought they could do it better.

The point was that Steve Jobs had this knack of knowing what would sell (usually) Such a contrast with the committee led stuff that leads to ordinary and boring goods. The world need people like him to drive progress, they will always get the vitriol aimed at them by the trolls and proles.

I look forward to reading the book when I can, it will be interesting to see if it brings anything new to an already widely covered subject.
 

Jacob

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Chems":2f4ud2dm said:
.... he wasn't actually such a visionary, he stole quite a few ideas and openly admits it. ......
"talent imitates, genius steals" - variations attributed to many including Oscar Wilde and Picasso.
I think this upsets some people as there is a strong notion that individuality, creativity, originality all go together in a superior sort of way. I think this is a myth and in fact copying is king.
 

studders

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Kalimna":15vybsk2 said:
But iThings only happened because Bill Gates made the software that drove the hardware that allowed such technology to work at a non-prohibitive cost.
Adam
Not quite so simple as that. iThings would probably have happened anyway as would have the huge surge in the popularity of the PC without Gates. They both just happened to be in the right place, at the right time and with a degree of 'vision' and business acumen.
For anyone to claim either of them as Genius is overstating things IMO.
 

gus3049

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studders":rs0la89f said:
Kalimna":rs0la89f said:
But iThings only happened because Bill Gates made the software that drove the hardware that allowed such technology to work at a non-prohibitive cost.
Adam
Not quite so simple as that. iThings would probably have happened anyway as would have the huge surge in the popularity of the PC without Gates. They both just happened to be in the right place, at the right time and with a degree of 'vision' and business acumen.
For anyone to claim either of them as Genius is overstating things IMO.
Quite. Genius is a much over used expression. Their timing was perfect as you say, they caught the rising tide and were just two of many geeks around at the time. Jobs pinched the basic Mac idea from Xerox and Gates bought DOS for a song from the guy that wrote it and then copied the Mac to put on top of that for Windoze.

The choice as ever, is between 'pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap' and 'being prepared to pay for the extra quality and design'. The arguments about this will run for ever of course and are totally pointless and relate to every activity known to man.

Lets start one about Hoover nicking ideas from Dyson - probably won't get the same level of response though. I mean, who the hell cares about vacuum cleaners - just white good right?
 

Chems

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+1 to the last 5 replies, it seems those that are interested in the subject have a good grasp of the truth of it all. Like Gus says, there was a bit of an alignment of the planets with Gates, Jobs and Jobs visit to Xerox parc all happening around the same time that bought about the age of the modern computer as we know it, its just a shame more people don't understand the interleaved importance of what went on at the Parc, Jobs and Gates and other players to bring about what we have today. Instead it feels like people attribute it all to Jobs.
 

gus3049

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Chems":2jj281ct said:
+1 to the last 5 replies, it seems those that are interested in the subject have a good grasp of the truth of it all. Like Gus says, there was a bit of an alignment of the planets with Gates, Jobs and Jobs visit to Xerox parc all happening around the same time that bought about the age of the modern computer as we know it, its just a shame more people don't understand the interleaved importance of what went on at the Parc, Jobs and Gates and other players to bring about what we have today. Instead it feels like people attribute it all to Jobs.
Thats funny, I thought everybody attributes it all to Gates!! :lol:

Oh for balance in all things.
 

Chip shop

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I find it quite sad that people seem to forget about the real genius behind Apple - Steve Wozniac. His 'baby', the Apple II, was a revolutionary piece of kit and I'm pretty sure Steve Jobs would never have been in the position to invent (or pretend to invent, depending on your POV) the Lisa, Mac and iStuff without the massive revenue generated from the II.

BTW, Wozniac's autobiography, iWoz, is a pretty good read.
 

bugbear

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Chip shop":3r32ox8w said:
I find it quite sad that people seem to forget about the real genius behind Apple - Steve Wozniac. His 'baby', the Apple II, was a revolutionary piece of kit and I'm pretty sure Steve Jobs would never have been in the position to invent (or pretend to invent, depending on your POV) the Lisa, Mac and iStuff without the massive revenue generated from the II.

BTW, Wozniac's autobiography, iWoz, is a pretty good read.
Wozniak had nothing to do with iStuff. :evil:

That was Joanathan Ive, another person who isn't Steve Jobs... :lol: :lol: :lol:

BugBear
 

Chip shop

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Eh? I didn't say Woz had anything to do with iStuff. In fact he had very little to do with the dev work for the Lisa or Mac either.

My point was that the Apple II was responsible in no small way for the success of Apple. Without it Jobs wouldn't have had the tech or capital to develop his future projects. I just don't think that Wozniac gets the credit he deserves for his part in the development of the personal computer.

Think of it this way; if it hadn't been for the early development at Apple, then IBM might not have panicked and rolled the 80086 out the door, then we might not have the modern PC, then the internet might not have taken off.......and then where would we go for an argument? :lol: :lol:
 

Losos

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gus3049":20qk1fme said:
This is one of the big problems with our society. So many firmly held opinions seem based on media reports and heresay. Maybe in Jobs' case its his own fault as he is one of those who helped mould the way we live nowadays.
Not me Gordon, I don't have any I-products, they wouldn't work where I spend most of my time now, even in England there are still places where they don't work and those are the places I like to be now.

Media hype and heresay............oh God don't get me started on that subject just look at all the mis information and just plain advertising surrounding some event in July / August, I can't even remember what it's all about, certainly nothing to do with genuine athletic competition.

As you say every one seems to have an opinion based on what some media muppet has said on TV, what I can never understand is just because the person works in front of the camera what makes his opinion more valid than the guy who works behind the camera :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

studders

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Losos":2k1xwrig said:
.

As you say every one seems to have an opinion based on what some media muppet has said on TV...:
Don't think that's quite what he said.. :)
and it certainly isn't the basis for many, if any, of my opinions.
 

condeesteso

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Jacob":1jqn4ony said:
Chems":1jqn4ony said:
.... he wasn't actually such a visionary, he stole quite a few ideas and openly admits it. ......
"talent imitates, genius steals" - variations attributed to many including Oscar Wilde and Picasso.
I think this upsets some people as there is a strong notion that individuality, creativity, originality all go together in a superior sort of way. I think this is a myth and in fact copying is king.
"In the beginning there were three ideas."
I was told that some years ago by a creative director of an ad agency, having casually accused him of plagiarism.
I thought that was a very smart response. He published his book about 9 months ago - 'xxxxx' on Advertising. He knows his onions.
 
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