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Startrite 352

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Harbo

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Has anybody fitted more modern type guide wheels to the older type 352 Bandsaw?

The original system is rather crude and I know they work reasonably well, but on tightening them up, mine tend to rotate in the direction of the tightening force and therefore altering the correct gap and "parallelness".
It takes several attempts to get them to an acceptable position and is becoming a bit of a pain whenever I change blades.
Trying to get a clamp to keep them in position is difficult - because of the blade and allowing spanner " access ".

Rod
 

Pete Maddex

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Hi,

I have a 352 and I have the same problem its tricky to get them set right, but I do tend to use the same blade for everything so it doesn't happen often.
I guess you could just fit roller bearings on place of the blocks, I will have a look at mine tonight to see if what I am thinking is possible.

Pete
 

Harbo

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Yes fine once set up properly but I changed blades to cut some brass yesterday and ruined a piece - and brass is not cheap!

Rod
 

Pete Maddex

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Hi, Rod

Well I had a look and it's possible to replace the blocks with bearings.

Pete
 

paulm

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Hi Rod, I use a suitable thickness feeler gauge inserted between the guide block and the blade when tightening, helps avoid the block turning in when tightening. Hope that helps.

Cheers, Paul
 

dickm

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Personally, I wouldn't dream of replacing the blocks on my 352. Never had any problems adjusting them, but one tip that might help is to pinch a bit of very thin paper (Rizla?) between blade and guide when tightening to stop any movement.
(Just seen Paul has beaten me to it with this :( )
 

Harbo

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Yes I do use thin paper but it doesn't stop the LHS one moving out when tightening - (clockwise).

Rod
 

paulm

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Harbo":7rzmmfrp said:
Yes I do use thin paper but it doesn't stop the LHS one moving out when tightening - (clockwise).

Rod
That one I just hold against the feeler blade with my fingers when tightening...... Seems to work fine, but maybe you are working to higher levels of precision Rod ?

Vaguely recall Alan Holtham doing demo's though where I think he slackened top and bottom guides off altogether without any noticable loss of precision in the cut, or maybe I imagined that, perhaps someone else can recall ?

Cheers, Paul
 

Harbo

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Paul, the thing is I cannot hold the guides tight enough to stop them moving when I tighten the nuts.

When my saw is properly set up I get no blade drift at all.
Yesterday I changed a 1/2" thin blade to a 1/2" 14TPI slightly thicker one - so all I had to really change was the guide gap?
The first attempt gave a terrible result - I was cutting some brass strips with the fence as a guide.
After playing around only setting the gap again I got the required result. So I have to think the guide adjustment is important?

Here's some WIP - the brass pieces are parallel - honest :)



Rod
 

Argus

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I agree that they work fine when set .... but and this was the main point brought up earlier - , they are a pain to set in the first place and tend to go out of true quickly.
It may be the age of the saw - mine's 20 odd years old, but I would like to try a set of bearings iin the hope of a more positive setting.

Are there any kits availble and if so, will they fit the 352?


.
 

paulm

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Argus":1yizkxtp said:
.

I agree that they work fine when set .... but and this was the main point brought up earlier - , they are a pain to set in the first place and tend to go out of true quickly.
It may be the age of the saw - mine's 20 odd years old, but I would like to try a set of bearings iin the hope of a more positive setting.

Are there any kits availble and if so, will they fit the 352?


.
How odd, don't have any trouble setting mine up, just takes a little bit of care and they never go out of true, how can they if you tighten the securing bolts adequately ?

Cheers, Paul
 

Pete Maddex

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Hi, Rod

My idea is some bearings with the right inside diameter with a big washer at the back against the back plate, a smaller washer that fits against the inner race so the outside one can turn, another small washer and the nut. Seems simple to do just need to price some bearings up.

Pete
 

Harbo

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Pete - that sounds like a cunning plan :)

I suppose identifying the correct bearing will be the problem: 7mm approx ID, 23mm OD and 16mm wide?

Cromwell's miniature ones are only 7mm wide - they do a Stud Type Track Roller which is 12mm wide but don't know if the would be the correct type and it's expensive?

Rod
 

condeesteso

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If it's block guides, one thing to consider is replace with lignum vitae, and have them in contact. That is a David Charlesworth trick on his old Wadkin. The LV will wear but slowly and is good for its self-lubricating properties.
And Rob - making a few Bridge City squares there are we?? =D>
 

Harbo

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Pete - pm sent

Douglas - Apart from the fact I haven't any Lignum, I think the same problem will occur with the tightening? A bearing cannot swing out?
And well spotted - I don't know what they charge but well worth the money - very fiddly and time consuming to make? :)


Rod
 

condeesteso

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Hi Rod - (not Rob, apologies) - don't know how the guides on the 352 are made so fair enough. But I retain that LV trick as being useful - had a Beckum a while ago with block guides and it would have been good on that I think. And I suspect you know what Bridge City charge... quite a bit. Very nice indeed though... got a spare one?? :lol:
 

Benchwayze

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I had some fibre 'cool-block' material given me to epoxy to the guides on my 351. I never go around to fitting the stuff, but I was assured it wore quite well, and really did run cool.

Anyone used this stuff? it looks like tufnol, but with a small honey-comb pattern visible through one surface.
John :)
 

dickm

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FWIW, I fitted some "Coolblox" to the Kity that preceded my Startrite, and they were certainly better than the Kity originals, but seemed to me to wear out very fast.
 

beech1948

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I looked at buying a set of bearing based guides a couple of years ago for my 352.

I found a set at APTC that cost about £35. The main issue was that the diameter of the hole to fit to the post was different and I never made an effort to resolve the issue.

Scott and Sargeant will sell you a pair of roller guides for about £250 +.
I also considered the Carter guides from the US of A but had issues with sizes and choosing from their many products. Again not a cheap solution.

My final solution was as follows.
1) Remove guides and clean down to a level of surgical purity inc removal of all rust and grime.
2) Rethread the bolts and nuts securing the guides to ensure a clean thread pattern
3) Replace the rear guide rod with the carborundum end with a new one from ALT saws. ( Startrite passed all the spares for their older saws to them)
4) Created a mini Scary Sharp sandpaper set up and cleaned the metal guide blocks to be square and flat. They only needed a little tuning
5) Reassembled, used a strip of office paper as a spacer, used my socket set to tighten up the guide block nuts and used cured the tendency for one side to deviate from perfect positioning by making a wooden jig to slide over the blade from below the guides and hold the guide blocks in the correct position while I tightened away.

This all took me about 30 minutes even though it sounds long winded and inc the wooden jig.

The lower guides were a pain though and after setting up I seldom change these.

Since then I have had no problems with guide blocks moving out of place due to torsion effects from tightening.
No roller guides were bought.

Good luck

Alan
 
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