Starting a sash window business

[flanajb]

I recently manufactured some replacment sashes for our sash windows as a result of them being rather worse for wear. At the same time I decided it was a great opportunity to machine the 2"*2" stock in such a way so that the rebate was deep enough for double glazed units.

Having done this I know drive around the town looking at all the single glazed sash windows and think to myself, "surely there must be a market for offering replacement double glazed sashes that does not require a whole new frame as well" ?

Interested to hear your thoughts on this subject.

PS - It may also stop people ripping them out and replacing with UPVC

 

[kasandrich]

Great idea, but would be even better in conjunction with some system of draught exclusion between the old frame and the new sashes, so that you could provide a solution (including installation service) of double glazed sashes and draught proofing. I think some form of routed groove with a brush arrangement fitted, or a neoprene hollow form which squashes down.

I thhink there would be a big market especially in conservation areas and listed buildings.

I guess once you are set up with the right machinery to cut the profile its fairly straighforward to change the size to order.

 

[Dibs-h]

There certainly would be a market - more listed building that conservation areas - I'm still seeing all sorts being fitted in those sorts of areas.

Might need to alter the weights to take into account the extra weight of the DG units.

 

[Dan-K]

... especially in conservation areas and listed buildings.

Unfortunately the planners generally do not look kindly on replacing single glazed with double glazed and, as I understand it, would in most cases refuse consent. They prefer secondary glazing solutions to maintain the integrity of the original building.

Having said that, it doesn't seem to have prevented the neighbours in our conservation area replacing leaded timber windows with some horrible upvc ... though I suspect the town hall is not aware of the replacement though :roll:

 

[SNight]

There are already companies doing this all over the country, and this is what I specialize in. You can't match an existing single glazed sliding sash window with a double glazed one, unless the sash does not have any glazing bars, in which case you can make the rebate wide enough to cover the spacer bars in your double glazed unit.

You can make a sliding sash to incorporate the double glazing with with georgian bars, but they have to be a lot wider in section to carry the extra width in the rebate, so they wouldn't match the originals. The other option being to use plant on astragels, which again in my opinion don't look right.

If it is work on a listed building you cannot change the appearance of the window, and also now in conservation areas I am seeing people being told to remove windows that they haven't had permission to install.

 

[flanajb]

You can't match an existing single glazed sliding sash window with a double glazed one, unless the sash does not have any glazing bars

Why does it matter if the sash has glazing bars ?

is that because the glazing bar is not strong enough to hold a double glazed unit ?

The only reason I ask is that my interpretation of a glazing bar is a component who's depth is the same as a sash stile or rail and as such can be machined in the same way ?

Maybe I am missing the point ?

 

[SNight]

If the original sash has glazing bars and you want to reproduce a sash to match the original, you have to make the glazing bars wider to incorporate the width of the spacer bar in the double glazed unit. Otherwise you would see it protruding from the rebate.

The glazing bar is the same depth yes, but not the same width to take a double glazed unit, because you have to make the rebates wider to hide the spacer bars.

 

[flanajb]

If the original sash has glazing bars and you want to reproduce a sash to match the original, you have to make the glazing bars wider to incorporate the width of the spacer bar in the double glazed unit. Otherwise you would see it protruding from the rebate.

The glazing bar is the same depth yes, but not the same width to take a double glazed unit, because you have to make the rebates wider to hide the spacer bars.

I see what you mean. Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[JoinerySolutions]

The alternative is to use stuck on glazing bars, these tend to be fiddly and you need a really good glazing company to make the DG units up to exact requirements.

Something like this. ( has lost some definition saving from cad to pdf to paint)
Rob.

 

[jasonB]

And you won't get that 55mm section into an existing box frame :wink:

Jason

 

[RogerS]

And won't you need depleted uranium sash weights to balance out the extra weight especially in larger sashes?

 

[flanajb]

And you won't get that 55mm section into an existing box frame :wink:

Jason

Depends on the size of the spacer that you use. I used the welden router cutters to machine the stock and I can get 20mm units. 4 + 12 + 4

 

[jasonB]

And won't you need depleted uranium sash weights to balance out the extra weight especially in larger sashes?

If you did that you wouldn't need the double glazing, that red glow all round you would keep you warm

Thats often the problem, even with lead weights instead of CI the pockets are not always big enough.

Jason

 

[JoinerySolutions]

The sample is from a barn conversion with conservation aspects to it, we still had to meet new glazing regs though.
Sometimes you are allowed to use thinner units, 4-6-4 with argon or some such gas fill to keep sash sections down but it is entierly at the local conservation officers say so. (so it seems!)
Weights are a big issue and due to this we tend to make complete units to replace the existing, and have found some neat tricks to accomodate larger weights in confined box sizes when required.
Rob.

 

[flanajb]

Weights are a big issue and due to this we tend to make complete units to replace the existing, and have found some neat tricks to accomodate larger weights in confined box sizes when required.
Rob.

I find Lead does the trick, or if space is a real problem then Osmium

 

[Tintin]

Slimlite make a 4-4-4 unit which looks intresting..

http://www.slimliteglass.co.uk/timber-windows.html

 

[joiner_sim]

A company that already does this is: http://www.ventrolla.co.uk/ might be worth a look for information/ideas.

 

[flanajb]

A company that already does this is: http://www.ventrolla.co.uk/ might be worth a look for information/ideas.

Looks like a franchise business to me.

I am going to speak with local conservation officer and see what he would be happy with and then spin the marketing / leaflet drop around that.

Just need to get that combination machine I have been promising myself. Maybe the Rojek from Axminster for £3500?

 

[joiner_sim]

surely would franchise business be the way to go and get started, get some customers built up and then maybe.... take them with you to your own company? not that i'm suggesting that you steal intellectual property or anything....

 

[flanajb]

surely would franchise business be the way to go and get started, get some customers built up and then maybe.... take them with you to your own company? not that i'm suggesting that you steal intellectual property or anything....

they appear to only repair sashes.

This quote was lifted from their FAQ section.

"Is it possible to install double glazing into my original sash windows?
This depends on the width of the rebate of the sashes. In many cases the rebate is not wide enough in a period window to accept a second pane of glass. There is also the issue of extra weight to the window meaning more weight has to be added to b...more "