Stanley #50 beading cutters

[Eric The Viking]

Christmas came early last night!

My son and daughter-in-law came back from my in-laws with a present from my father-in-law: a Stanley #50 he says he won't use any more. It's all there, and not in bad condition either, but predictably most of the cutters are unused and require honing properly.

I've searched, and this topic has indeed come up before: how you should sharpen the beading cutters.

• I've looked for slip stones, but can't find any at the correct sizes, and anyway they're less than 180 degrees round, so likely to scuff the straight parts of the cutters.
• The idea of dowel with wet+dry glued round it is nice, but the smallest is cutter is 1/8" diameter, and I imagine wet and dry will simply crack with a sharp radius like that.
• MDF stropping wheels on a hand or slow-speed grinder seem to me the best approach. I have a hand grinder, too, and plenty of Autosol ("honing compound" to woodworkers, metal polish to bikers, etc.) so this is do-able.

The most recent thread I found was from 2006, with Paul Chapman, IIRC, recommending shaped MDF discs. Has anyone got any other ideas. I'll go that route unless there's a really whizzo idea I've not heard about!

Thoughts?

E.

PS: I did wonder about the width of the straight parts of the cutters, either side. Is it my imagination, or did wooden beading planes of old cut away less 'land'? They look too wide in the smaller sizes.

PPS: Jolly chuffed all the same!

 

[bugbear]

I've searched, and this topic has indeed come up before: how you should sharpen the beading cutters.
.
.
Thoughts?

Since they're shaped, it is important to maintain the shape as you hone, and thus could be tricky, as you imply.

Since they're not used much (ever seen a worn beading cutter?) I would recommend ignoring the bevelled (curved) part, and only work the flat back of the blade. The cutters are actually quite soft, this is easy to do.

This should give a good enough edge for use. I also wouldn't bother sharpening them "just in case". I would defer sharpening until you need to use a particular cutter.

Sharpening moulding plane cutters is even more tedious and fiddly, and was a job given to apprentices. :lol: Normal working practise was to remove as much waste as possible with easier to sharpen tools (jack plane, rebate plane, plough plane) in order to maximise the life of the precious moulding plane sharpness.

BugBear

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I've never used multi-plane beading cutters, so the following is slightly a matter of speculation; offered for what it's worth, anyway!

Diamond needle files for gross reshaping if required, and fine wet-and-dry round wires or small diameter rods for honing (decent w&d will form surprisingly small return bends as long as it's wrapped round something, but not if it's just folded). Wooden slips with Autosol for stropping. Don't forget to do the flat side, as well.

 

[Paul Chapman]

The most recent thread I found was from 2006, with Paul Chapman, IIRC, recommending shaped MDF discs.

I still rate that as the best method, or to use the narrow honing wheels on a Tormek if you have one.

Here's the type of wheel I made from MDF. Very easy to shape, using a rasp while the wheel is revolving.



Which I then held in an electric drill and honed freehand



Just put a bit of honing compound on the wheel



Hone the flat bit of the blade as normal on your sharpening stone.

Combination plane blades should be honed at 35 degrees. Best not to use a secondary bevel so as to maintain the shape.

Lots of information (including honing) of Alf's site http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/combihow.html

Cheers :ho2

Paul

 

[Paul Chapman]

Since they're not used much (ever seen a worn beading cutter?) I would recommend ignoring the bevelled (curved) part, and only work the flat back of the blade.

I've seen this method recommended by various people. It's even mentioned in "Planecraft". However, having tried it, I wouldn't recommend it. You get a significantly sharper edge by honing both sides and it's not that difficult.

Cheers :ho2

Paul

 

[Dodge]

I have and still use my 50 with its beading cutters - I agree with Bugbear as I never touch the bevel when sharpening, simply dressing the face of the cutter on a diamond stone will maintain the edge you require.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Thanks everyone - honing the back sounds much more do-able!

 

[xy mosian]

I recall a similar question in a Carving mag, but specifically about smaller gouge sizes. The best advice given, I thought, was to cut a groove with the gouge. Load the groove with honing compound and then drag the edge of the gouge backwards over it. Thus using the gouge to make its own honing profile. I believe MDF was suggested as it has, as you all know, a natural abrasive quality. I wonder if this could be used with the cutters you speak of?
xy

 

[bugbear]

I recall a similar question in a Carving mag, but specifically about smaller gouge sizes. The best advice given, I thought, was to cut a groove with the gouge. Load the groove with honing compound and then drag the edge of the gouge backwards over it. Thus using the gouge to make its own honing profile. I believe MDF was suggested as it has, as you all know, a natural abrasive quality. I wonder if this could be used with the cutters you speak of?
xy

You'd want to make the cut with the tool as low as possible (nearly zero relief angle), and not the usual cutting angle, otherwise the shape of the result will be wrong.

it's the same maths that means the shape of a moulding plane blade is not the shape of the profile it cuts, since the blade works at a 45 degree angle.

BugBear

 

[xy mosian]

Agreed. I suppose the best forming cut would be with the bevel in contact with the form, mdf suggested. That would be very difficult to do without a purpose made blade holding device.
xy

 

[Eric The Viking]

I'm not sure about the gouge technique (honed with its own profile) with a moulding cutter that does beading:

The issue is the straight part of the cutter: if the bevels cause the profile to be relieved, as I'd expect, the bevels (flat and curved) can't follow the shape the cutter makes.

I'm going to try the 'hone the back' approach first as I'm good at flat shiny chisels

If I can't get a good enough edge that way, I'll investigate the bevels too.

 

[bugbear]

I'm not sure about the gouge technique (honed with its own profile) with a moulding cutter that does beading:
The issue is the straight part of the cutter: if the bevels cause the profile to be relieved, as I'd expect, the bevels (flat and curved) can't follow the shape the cutter makes.

I'm going to try the 'hone the back' approach first as I'm good at flat shiny chisels

If I can't get a good enough edge that way, I'll investigate the bevels too.

Good point - if the bevels lie in non-parallel planes (euclidean), you can't work them simultaneously.

BugBear

 

[twothumbs]

I have always used a slip stone and a small stone really just to touch up the edges. They dont need to be worked quite like chisels or planes. Stones and Record bead and plough cutters bought about 1970 so a while ago. Most of my set remain unused. I certainly have only edged the ones I want to use running say architraves for about 7 feet at a time in r/w, so no big trouble. It was always the depth of cut which was the careful bit for me and working gently without force. Best wishes.

 

[AndyT]

In my limited experience you need to get the internal curved surfaces honed smooth to get a good cut. Once you have done that, a quick rub on the easy flat side will restore sharpness.

But as Eric suggested earlier, the straight parts are out of proportion, especially on the smaller sizes; they have to be, to clear the skates.

The solution to the problem is to buy a 'selection' of wooden beading planes. Once you swap over to them, the problem of sharpening your combi plane cutters goes away!

 

[Billy Flitch]

On a stick in the shop I have cut a string of every bead cutter for the 50 the first time I cut it the oval is not honed.
The result isn't to bad and you can live with it for the fist cut.
There after I put Honing compound on the bead and draw the blade backwards it hones the whole of the cutting edge.
The flat parts of the blade are honed as normal, I can see where the thinking that over time the cutting edge of the oval would change shape but in reality I have yet to notice any change in the shape at all.

 

[Eric The Viking]

On a stick in the shop I have cut a string of every bead cutter for the 50 the first time I cut it the oval is not honed.
The result isn't to bad and you can live with it for the fist cut.
There after I put Honing compound on the bead and draw the blade backwards it hones the whole of the cutting edge.
The flat parts of the blade are honed as normal, I can see where the thinking that over time the cutting edge of the oval would change shape but in reality I have yet to notice any change in the shape at all.

Fair points.

Even if it did change, it would be pretty hard to spot, and if any mitred stuff is done at the same time, I bet you'd never spot it.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

The SiC paper and a suitable dowel works for me. And I've got a flexcut "accesssory" which is basically a bit of MDF with various ridges on it that can be used with their (quite good) crayon of honing compound to polish the inside of various tools.

The solution to the problem is to buy a 'selection' of wooden beading planes. Once you swap over to them, the problem of sharpening your combi plane cutters goes away!

Frying pan ->-> fire

 

[David C]

0.1mm drill sets make very versatile hones, which I use for the edges of small scratch stock beading blades.

I wrap an appropriate drill shaft, with fine wet and dry, say 800g or 1000 g. The paper can be held with a bulldog clip, and the final diameter measured with callipers.

David Charlesworth

 

[J_SAMa]

I think a slip stone of 1/4" width will handle even blades up to 1/2". It's all about following the curves.