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Stanley 386, Broken Wingbolt

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custard

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The Stanley 386 is attached onto a plane body with two wingbolts. Unfortunately one of these wingbolts has just sheared off on mine.
Stanley-386.jpg


Stanley-386-Wingbolt.jpg


This is a working tool that I use pretty regularly, so I'd like to get it back in operation and I'm not too fussy about how it looks.

Imperial sized wingbolts seem to be available on Ebay direct from China, and at a pinch I could even use a regular hex head bolt. The problem is determining exactly what thread it is. Anyone any ideas? The original bolt has about 28 threads per inch and is a whisker over 11/64" in diameter (or a whisker under 3/16" diameter).

Thanks.
 

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shed9

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I believe it is a 10/28 thread (so the 28 TPI makes sense) and used on the No78 as well (although shorter). I'm also aware gunsmiths in the US use this thread. I'll have a look through my box of bits, long shot but I may have some.
 

memzey

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Ooh that’s a shame. I have one of those and it’s very handy for certain jobs - particularly angles other than 90*. If you’re in a pickle you can borrow mine until yours is sorted out. Just give me a PM and I’ll post it to you.
 

shed9

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Had a look, none in my bin - sorry. I have lots of No78 screws but they are way too short. It's the side screw that locks the depth stop in place.

Fairly sure it's the same thread, i.e. 10/28 however this should be 0.19 (inch decimal) / 4.8mm in diameter whereas yours measures between 4.3 and 4.7mm. Still fairly sure it's the same one but worth being aware of. I think it's classed as UNS in the US and a pain to find (you probably didn't want to hear that).

May be worth dropping an email to the tool shops around UK and try HyperKitten in the US (they are perfect for this sort of thing). Phil.p put up an excellent list the other day for UK suppliers;

http://taths.org.uk/tools-trades/notes- ... ealers-etc

I'll ask around as well, I know a few gunsmiths.
 

custard

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You may well be right about the 10/28 UNS thread. I've being doing some digging and it seems Stanley adopted some early thread standards and stuck with them long after they became obsolete,

http://www.tttg.org.au/Content/Stanley% ... rt%202.pdf

There are taps and dies available in 10/28 UNS, but so far at least I can't find any bolts. I'll persevere for a few weeks but after that I guess my practical options are,

1. Spend half a day and a few quid drilling out the hole on my 386 and re-tap it for a more common thread size
2. Spend around £130 on a replacement 386, downside being this problem seems to be fairly common amongst 386's that get regularly used
3. Spend rather more and move to the Veritas version

In the meantime if anyone has a breaker 386 or a 10/28 UNS bolt please let me know!
 

AndyT

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I've checked here and it looks like I only have one 3/16" 28tpi screw and it holds the Stanley fence onto my Record 078. And it would be too short.

28 tpi is difficult to make nicely without a die, which I don't have. So sorry I can't send you one.

However, I have two practical suggestions to make the fence usable.

An M4 bolt should go through the hole ok, with a nut on the back, assuming there's room. You could glue the nut in place. I expect it would be strong enough.

Alternatively, I assume that this really is a tool where usability is more important than its value to a collector. What someone else might pay is irrelevant if you will never want to sell it. So drill out the hole to 5mm, tap it M6 and use a standard fastener.

If you do the other one at the same time, you can eBay the spare!

(Cross post - I think we agree! Except that drilling and tapping would be more like half an hour than half a day.)
 

profchris

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I checked on eBay - no 10/28 UNS machine screws I can find, but tap and die sets are just over £5 from China. Admittedly, that's a 3-4 week wait. But cutting a thread into a length of steel rod is easy, even I can manage it! Cut a slot in the end, fix in a 1p coin, apply a washer, and you're away.
 

custard

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profchris":186acavc said:
I checked on eBay - no 10/28 UNS machine screws I can find
Could you post a link to that? I've combed through Ebay but I can't find anything (there's plenty of UNF, but not UNS).

Thanks.
 

shed9

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custard":bx0fssx9 said:
profchris":bx0fssx9 said:
I checked on eBay - no 10/28 UNS machine screws I can find
Could you post a link to that? I've combed through Ebay but I can't find anything (there's plenty of UNF, but not UNS).

Thanks.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lots-1pc-HSS ... ctupt=true

change your search string, i.e. 10/28, 10-28, 10 28, etc (if that makes sense).

I'd still check the online stores, collectors will often keep half a tool and bits. Also, little bit of a tangent but the old Singer sewing machines used 10/28 threads, may give more options in the search.
 

custard

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shed9":20a269g3 said:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lots-1pc-HSS-Machine-10-28-UNS-Plug-Tap-and-1pc-10-28-UNS-Die-Threading-Tool/302588308253?hash=item4673ab2b1d:g:uwMAAOSwcOFWaQZb&frcectupt=true

change your search string, i.e. 10/28, 10-28, 10 28, etc (if that makes sense).
I can find the taps and dies that you've linked to, but not the actual 10/28 UNS bolts. I've searched with every punctuation combination that I can think of, but without any luck.

Interesting your comment regarding Singer Sewing machines, there was a reference on one web site to Cessna aircraft, it seems UNS is an aviation standard, but what planes are doing with an old and obsolete thread pattern is anyone's guess!

On balance I think Andy's suggestion of an M3 or M3.5 bolt/machine screw is the quickest and cheapest solution, so I'll probably use that to get the tool up and running again.
 

Bedrock

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Have you tried someone like Yapton old tool store? If you are based where I think you are, they are located about 5 miles east of Chichester. They usually have a wide range of taps and dies, and parts for old planes, etc. A warning - I have always come away with more than I went for.
 

custard

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I've never heard of them, but I drive past Chichester fairly often so I'll drop in. Thanks!
 

custard

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Ah! I think you mean Leeside Tools near Arundel. Blimey, I had no idea they were still going!
 

Bedrock

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Yes - they are located on the main road through the village. If you have been there, you will know that their shop is somewhat labyrinthine. You need to head to the rear-most room, back right, where there are parts of planes, etc. in a metal cabinet.
If you keep going west, G and M tools at Ashington, are worth a stop, wide range of hand tools and machinery, but probably a telephone call first. I have no connection with either.
 

custard

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Yes, I think I read somewhere that there is another Stanley tool that uses a similar wing nut, so it may well be a plough plane. But the problem is that even though it's the same thread it's too short to be used with the 386.
 

Phil Pascoe

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If you could get hold of a bit of threaded bar with the correct thread (obviously :D ) it wouldn't be rocket science to make the wing part from a bit of brass or alloy and epoxy it on. You could make two matching and ebay the remaining original. :idea:
 

kwigly

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If you can't readily get a replacement, why don't you just weld the broken screw back together ? (or weld an extension onto the existing threaded piece to make a new screw)
 
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