Spanish Door Construction

[deema]

Holidaying in Palma, I couldn't help but notice the unusual door contraction for the large majority of the external doors.

If you carefully follow the mitre cut line you can see that it extends through the moulding on the rail and defines the width of the rail.

Back of the door. The iron bar is part of the fastening mechaniism. No beading to be seen to hold the panel in.

The rails and styles have been mounded and blend into the panels. The panels protrude for the rails and styles and are very difficult to see where they finish and tframe begins.

I can only surmise that unlike traditional English doors where the panels are either held in place by a grove or planted on mouldings that the rails and styles have a tongue and the panel is grooved. This appears to be a far superior method of panelled door construction in that the groove or rebate is eliminated in the rail and style which inevitably causes the panels to rot. In this method I would think that the water is shed and will lead to a longer life of the doors.

The mortise and tenons are unusual, I can't work out why they all seem to have the semi circle at the tip of the mitres.

Would welcome anyone's views if how these are actually made.

 

[rafezetter]

I think you are right about the panel having the groove instead of the rail - that closeup with the hinge, the upper panel looks like there's a shadowline where the panel meets the rail rather than being continuous.

I've spent many a day walking round Palma's old town looking at all the old woodwork and doors, and those large bay things on the sides of the buildings - got quite a collection of photographs too.

You should take a look at the door of the old court house Placa de Cort (it's a doozy) and there's a wonderful Olive tree in the same courtyard area (and Cort the restaurant is damn fine too).

 

[cowfoot]

Glad I'm not the only person wandering around Spain taking photographs of doors...
Recently spotted these in Malaga cathedral -

They look pretty modern, at least 20ft tall. Beautiful.

 

[deema]

Wow, that's a door! Thanks for sharing.

The doors are in Palma c2~2 1/4" thick and the sizes are massive. The panels by rough reckoning are about 1 1/2" to 2" thick also. They must weigh a ton!

The mitre insert on the tennons I'm presuming is to help resist racking. The insert bits are pegged / draw pegged. The curve to me seems like both hard work to achieve the beautiful fit as well as leaving two vulnerable points.

I simply love the way the panels blend into the frame. I can't think of a reason not to make them this way for the UK. The panels could be held in by a loose tongue to make it easier to make - groove the frame and panel - but for me this would have too many disadvantages. I think I might make a door with a tongued frame and grooved panel to see both how it works out and lasts. If I do I will do a thread on the build.

My wifey complains I have more photos of stuff made of wood than I do of the family!

 

[AndyT]

Fascinating topic. It's a revelation to see a whole different approach and tradition.

I hope someone can find some exploded diagrams showing the construction, especially of that pretty little intersection of curve and mitres. It makes gunstock stiles look very plain and simple.

 

[lurker]

This thread made me laugh!
Currently in Florence, yesterday her majesty was moaning about me spending too much time examining wood doors and then hours later I see fellow forum users doing the same!

 

[dzj]

Fascinating topic. It's a revelation to see a whole different approach and tradition.

I hope someone can find some exploded diagrams showing the construction, especially of that pretty little intersection of curve and mitres. It makes gunstock stiles look very plain and simple.

A less 'intrusive' variant of a sword tip mitre.
Made in a time when the craftsman didn't mind putting in some extra effort and the customer
didn't mind paying a little more.

 

[Droogs]

Lol I currently have around 60 pics of front doors, all taken while on holidays. Even have SWMBO calling out good ones when we walk about sightseeing. I wonder if this makes us all Doorspotters or maybe even Doorstops, as every time we see a nice door we stop to admire it. So glad it's not just me that does it, was begining to think I was a little bit menta.... i mean eccentric

 

[deema]

Hi DZJ
It does look like a shortened sword tip mitre. I've popped a link to a chap on uTube who shows how one is cut. I rather like his feed, he specialises it appears on cuttings Japanese and Chinese joints.

https://youtu.be/8wTTX91Y3ro

The through tenons I would expect to be offset for this type of joint, however, they aren't. The tenons are in the middle of the styles as you would expect. I wonder if the 'sword' goes down to the tenons and is shortened to retain the strength in the styles.

Cutting the semi circle return on the end if the sword / recess won't be easy to achieve a perfect fit, which they all appear to be. Any ideas how to achieve this?

There are a number of recently made / brand new doors especially on the newly renovated buildings which although not as mounded on the styles and rails but are of the same construction.

Some of the doors are made from I think olive wood (not those in the photos) but most look to be some kind of pine. Can anyone identify what it is?

Like Andy said, If anyone can dig up an exploded diagram of how these are made that would be brilliant. I've muted to the boss that I might try and find someone who makes these whilst we are in the sun......I'm wondering if a divorce would be worth it!

 

[cowfoot]

The best destination for doorspotting has to be Zanzibar - I haven't got any photos but well worth a google.
Unfortunately they're being stolen to order and sold overseas. I once worked on a job in Chelsea (for a Saudi prince) and the chippy refused to chop one down to size to fit a much smaller frame. Good on him for taking a stand, but unfortunately the site manager just got a labourer to make an absolute pig's ear of it instead.

 

[deema]

I get some weir looks and when I go up to someone to ask if I can photo the detail of something on a private dwelling...especially a door or window they initiall they I've escaped from a sanitarium! I always ask before I start photographing close up details, I don't want my collar felt as they think I'm casing out the place! I've found mostly that once people realise that I'm genuinely interested and appreciative of the workmanship they are all too happy for me to look and photograph!!

I'm definitely a fully paid up member of the door and window spotting club.

I particularly love bowed, and arched sliding sash windows - very rare- They are up there with continuous handrails for craftsmanship

However, I'm getting off topic!

 

[AndyT]

But it's your own topic, and we all think you are as normal as the rest of us!

 

[pollys13]

I think I might make a door with a tongued frame and grooved panel to see both how it works out and lasts. If I do I will do a thread on the build. Great, I think that would be really interesting.

 

[pollys13]

" I wonder if this makes us all Doorspotters or maybe even Doorstops, as every time we see a nice door we stop to admire it. " Your not the only one I do the same and take photos, also interesting looking gates and other stuff.
If I'm walking around with someone else.... I'll say cor, over there, that's an interesting looking door, lets go and have a closer look

 

[pollys13]

I get some weir looks and when I go up to someone to ask if I can photo the detail of something on a private dwelling...especially a door or window they initiall they I've escaped from a sanitarium! I always ask before I start photographing close up details, I don't want my collar felt as they think I'm casing out the place! I've found mostly that once people realise that I'm genuinely interested and appreciative of the workmanship they are all too happy for me to look and photograph!!

I'm definitely a fully paid up member of the door and window spotting club.

I particularly love bowed, and arched sliding sash windows - very rare- They are up there with continuous handrails for craftsmanship

However, I'm getting off topic!

Same
" if I can photo the detail of something on a private dwelling...especially a door or window they initiall they I've escaped from a sanitarium! "
Same sort of thing happened to me, bit funny really. I saw this door with some chunky raised panels as part of the design, I stood there taking photos of his front door, the owner came out and asked what I was doing. So in a very conciliatory way I had to explain to him I was interested in woodworking, joinery, was a bit laborious having to explain a bit. I think he initially thought I might be casing up his house, prior to breaking into it. He was quite happy after I explained.