sorby planes / marples planes

[lurcher]

hi lads i had a result on ebay last week i bought 2 planes 3 chisels and a rabone 24" boxwood rule.
i have a very large collection of marples planes that are used almost daily so in my box of tools was a
i.sorby no4
a stanley no 3
7/8 bevel edge marlpes boxwood handle perfect
1/2" marples red and yellow handle
3/8 marples red and yellow handle
rabone chesterman 24" boxwood 4 fold rule .
so today i have inspected side by side the sorby against 3 of my no 4s and guess what they are identical also the work in the sorby was of a very good standard as i am keeping it i have stripped it of old paint and resprayed with plasticoat ennamel
i will try to take some pics to show the end result '

 

[AndyT]

It gets very hard to distinguish brand names from companies when looking at Sheffield-made tools, especially as the bigger companies acquired their rivals and kept the old brands going, but this advert provides evidence that "I Sorby" was just a Marples trademark from quite an early date, so it's no surprise that Sorby and Marples planes could be very similar:

The image is from the ever-useful Graces Guide site, here: http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Turner,_Naylor_and_Marples

 

[Vann]

...so today i have inspected side by side the sorby against 3 of my no 4s and guess what they are identical...
i will try to take some pics to show the end result '

That's interesting. It seems that a number of manufactures had some lines made by others - I guess it enabled their customers with "brand loyalty" to get all their tools from one "maker".

For example I believe Marples didn't make their own braces, but had them made by someone else (and stamped "Marples") - either by JA Chapman or Skinner IIRC.

I had wondered if Marples had their cast iron planes made by Record, but I don't see similarities and concluded that they must have made (or at least machined) their own. Now it looks like they made them for Sorby as well.

Cheers, Vann.

edit: I see from Andy's post that the relationship was even closer.

 

[AndyT]

For Marples and Record, in addition to the well-known Record sites, I thought this page looked useful:

http://jp29.org/wwmarples.htm

It includes this summary:

"William Marples & Sons traded independently from 1860 to 1962. In 1962 the C & J Hampton Ltd. (Record Tools) and Ridgeway & Sons Ltd. companies bought them out as joint owners with William Marples and Sons apparently continuing to operate as an independent entity. The history is quite confusing after 1972..."

I don't know who the author is, but he does have good taste in tools.

 

[C.R. Miller]

It's a little bit more complicated than that. The basic gist is that Turner, Naylor & Co. started making the Stanley-type planes from the Northern Tool Works (John Street, Sheffield) in 1932, just after Record introduced their range of planes (new tariffs on imported tools and a "Buy British" campaign the impetus for both companies). At the time, Turner, Naylor & Co. were wholly owned by Marples, but traded under their own, very popular, "I. SORBY" brand name. A year or so later Turner, Naylor & Co. began manufacturing the range of bench planes for Marples - again from the John Street Works. This production lasted until the Second World War. After the war Marples moved the metal planemaking operations to their own "Hibernia Works" and production continued from there. The "I. SORBY" range of bench planes were dropped during WW2 (or at least they did not resume after the war), so all the planes you find with the "I. SORBY" mark were made in the 1930's.

The association with Marples went back a long time - at least to the 1870's and possibly before then. William Marples was an equal partner when Turner, Naylor & Co. first bought the land, and then built the works, in John Street. Marples was then bought out of his share some years later, but there was still a close association between the two companies which remained for many years thereafter. Around 1909 Turner, Naylor & Co. made an offer to sell up everything to Marples at a cost which seems to have exceeded the firm's actual worth (I still haven't quite figured out the intricacies of that one). The settlement took a year or so to be completed though, and by 1911 (or thereabouts) Marples became the sole owner of Turner, Naylor & Co.

I have a book coming out very soon which charts the extremely complicated history of I. Sorby/Sorby & Turner/Turner & Naylor etc. etc., and the tools they made. I'll post an update here when it's available, for those who might be interested.

Cameron.

 

[AndyT]

Gosh yes, welcome along Cameron. I think you'll find there's quite a bit of enthusiasm for old Sheffield made tools around here, even amongst those of us who don't have room for any more planes... :wink:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

http://jp29.org/wwmarples.htm
All I'm getting is "page not found", Andy.

 

[AndyT]

http://jp29.org/wwmarples.htm
All I'm getting is "page not found", Andy.

Me too. This post on another forum
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/william-marples-sons-woodworking-tools-37890/
identifies the site owner as Jamesicus in Tucson, who I think has posted on here too. James, if you're reading this, can you give your web server a nudge into action please?

 

[jimi43]

Welcome Cameron and add me to the list of "interested parties!"

The tendency to retain brand names which have established themselves as "good stuff"...continues to today although there are a lot of brands which, once acquired, fall to the level of the accountants of the parent company and the brand soon suffers.

Both I.Sorby (old) and Marples had such a good reputation from the date of the merger and quality still remained so in those days it made sense to retain both brands. The awareness of brands did not travel far either unlike today where the whole world can find out in seconds!

Looking forward to the book! Most excellent!

Jimi

 

[Mr_P]

Welcome, you might find this thread of interest (please add me to the list)

mr-punch-first-appearance-i-sorby-t82871.html

Think this page is seriously lacking any plane pictures, sadly my camera is flat so this will have to suffice.

An ebay find, not mine

 

[lanemaux]

Welcome to our Hand Tools ward Cameron. I think you should like it here , you sure got the patter down and knowledge is always welcome. Very much looking forward to lively debate on our shared obsession as my wife , even with the best intentions, is still not really "getting" hand tool woodworking and it's history. So a hearty welcome from Canada to ya, eh!

 

[Argus]

Cameron,

I'd certainly welcome some detailed information on the successive relationships between the various makers.

Some of the old Preston patterns interest me greatly.
Some were taken up by Record, but one in particular, the long-base router, missed that boat but came up in a version by Joseph Tyzack, presumably through their relationship with Marples. I hope that you do manage to stray in that direction in your book.

Best regards