Social distancing, .. what's that?

[RobinBHM]

In the past we didn't over react to a fairly innocuous disease, that's why.

strawman

it isnt innocuous, it just happens to be the first virus to happen for a long time that is highly transmissible.
do you consider Spanish flu to be innocuous?


why do you saying it is innocuous? -out of ignorance, or have you been manipulated by conspiracy theories
which is it?

 

[Rorschach]

Meanwhile in the real world...

Well if you voted me prime minister that is what you would get

 

[Rorschach]

strawman

it isnt innocuous, it just happens to be the first virus to happen for a long time that is highly transmissible.
do you consider Spanish flu to be innocuous?


why do you saying it is innocuous? -out of ignorance, or have you been manipulated by conspiracy theories
which is it?

Spanish flu was awful, it killed all ages, especially the young. But it doesn't apply now, we are living in a totally different world, even if we had a virus of that calibre now we wouldn't suffer as much as they did then.

Why am I saying it is innocuous, simple really, it isn't particularly deadly, likely similar to seasonal flu yet unlike seasonal flu it is only affecting the very old and vulnerable. Seasonal flu affects all ages, mostly the old but is also a killer of young children hence why primary school children get a flu vaccine each year.

 

[selectortone]

Well if you voted me prime minister that is what you would get

More winky faces. I'm glad you're all having a good laugh.

 

[doctor Bob]

More winky faces. I'm glad you're all having a good laugh.

Must be miserable if you haven't laughed since Jan / Feb. I'm certainly fairly happy and trying my best to enjoy life, however in the future this may be banned. I understand you personal circumstances are different to mine but I fail to see how a winky face ban would help.

 

[doctor Bob]

removed

 

[Trainee neophyte]

From wikipedia:

Once a person has become infected, no specific treatment is available,[13] although supportive care may improve outcomes.[7] Such care may include oral rehydration solution (slightly sweet and salty fluids), healthy food, and medications to control the fever.[7][8] Antibiotics should be prescribed if secondary bacterial infections such as ear infections or pneumonia occur.[7][13] Vitamin A supplementation is also recommended for children.[13] The risk of death among those infected is about 0.2%,[5] but may be up to 10% in people with malnutrition

That's for measles which is, depending on who you believe this week, 2 to 4 times more infectious than Covid19, and seems to have a reasonably similar IFR (I tried to find a definitive value, but I have anything between 0.08% to 18% - it depends on which country you look at). I attended a measles party when I was at nipper to make damn sure I caught it - thank my criminally negligent parents for that. Different times have different approaches. Try having a Covid party for your children and you would spend 20 years in prison for attempted murder, racism and global warming offences.

 

[selectortone]

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[selectortone]

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[TheTiddles]

This is a most helpful thread.

Sometimes one reads someone’s opinion elsewhere on the forum and can think them highly ignorant. You can now pop along to this thread and have any remaining doubt removed.

Aidan

 

[RobinBHM]

Spanish flu was awful, it killed all ages, especially the young. But it doesn't apply now, we are living in a totally different world, even if we had a virus of that calibre now we wouldn't suffer as much as they did then.

Why am I saying it is innocuous, simple really, it isn't particularly deadly, likely similar to seasonal flu yet unlike seasonal flu it is only affecting the very old and vulnerable. Seasonal flu affects all ages, mostly the old but is also a killer of young children hence why primary school children get a flu vaccine each year.

That is demonstrably untrue.

It does not only affect the very old and vulnerable. Plenty of healthy, younger people have suffered.
My niece works in the NHS, she knows 2 staff in her hospital that had it bad.

One was a guy who was overweight, but he was healthy enough to work full time as a nurse, he now has heart damage. The other was a female nurse, no health problems, she has sustained serious lung damage and they don't think she will work again.

My niece is a radiographer, she took plenty of CT scans of lungs of people with Covid: the doctors got used to seeing the severe lung damage not common with any other disease.


If the country had not made huge efforts to reduce the R value, many more people would have died.....you are unfortunately claiming it's not that bad because there was a largely successful effort that kept the numbers down.





Spanish flu was bad, so is Covid

"The coronavirus is at least as deadly as the 1918 flu pandemic and the death toll could even be worse if world leaders and public health officials fail to adequately contain it, researchers warned in a study published Thursday in the medical journal JAMA Network Open."

“What we want people to know is that this has 1918 potential,” lead author Dr. Jeremy Faust said in an interview, adding that the outbreak in New York was at least 70% as bad as the one in 1918 when doctors didn’t have ventilators or other advances to help save lives like they do today. “This is not something to just shrug off like the flu.”

 

[RobinBHM]

This is a most helpful thread.

Sometimes one reads someone’s opinion elsewhere on the forum and can think them highly ignorant. You can now pop along to this thread and have any remaining doubt removed.

Aidan

I could make a tongue in cheek comment here.......

 

[Rorschach]

@RobinBHM

Sorry but you are wrong, the facts speak for themselves, C19 is nothing like Spanish Flu and the young are not affected in anywhere near the same way.

 

[billw]

@RobinBHM

Sorry but you are wrong, the facts speak for themselves, C19 is nothing like Spanish Flu and the young are not affected in anywhere near the same way.

Possibly, JUST possibly, there might be the century of medical, technological, and communication advances that separates them that helped.

When you say "the young are not affected" you mean in the short term. Nobody knows what the long-term effects are yet, and since time travel has not knowingly been invented* we have no way of speeding up that knowledge. Maybe there's some form of neurological damage that isn't being detected yet, or it will manifest in long term lung or heart complications.

* since nobody's come from the future to tell us it has. Yet.

 

[doctor Bob]

When you say "the young are not affected" you mean in the short term. Nobody knows what the long-term effects are yet, and since time travel has not knowingly been invented* we have no way of speeding up that knowledge. Maybe there's some form of neurological damage that isn't being detected yet, or it will manifest in long term lung or heart complications.

Crikey, the bonkers is strong.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

World population in 1918 was 1.7 billion ish, and and an estimated 50 million died from the Spanish flu. We would need more than 150 million dead from coronavirus to equate numerically. It hasn't even managed 1 million yet. There are two possibilities: either there is going to be a sudden, inexplicably huge increase in deaths, or the coronavirus isn't even remotely like the Spanish flu. I wouldn't like to speculate which is the most likely.

 

[billw]

Crikey, the bonkers is strong.

What? Just saying that's possible. I'm not saying I believe it, or that it's true. Just that it's possible. How that qualifies as bonkers I don't know.

 

[doctor Bob]

What? Just saying that's possible. I'm not saying I believe it, or that it's true. Just that it's possible. How that qualifies as bonkers I don't know.

Maybe anyone infected will turn into a zombie in winter ..............................

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Covid 19 has some major differences from flu:

• transmission rate is ~1.5 compared to 2.5-3.0 for Covid
• flu is contagious for ~1 day pre onset of symptoms, and 5-7 days afterwards. Covid is contagious for several days before symptoms (if any) making unknowing transmission far more likely
• flu seems to have a much lower risk of death

There are superficial similarities:

• the age profile of those who have a life threatening experience - mostly 70+ or in poor health
• In 2014/15 there were 44000 excess of deaths (flu) over the 5 year average during the winter months. Daily figures show a similar profile to Covid with daily excesses up to ~700 over normal levels.

I can accept that views and emotions vary over the elderly and the extent to which the economy and young should make sacrifices. IMHO this needs to be balanced by the consequences on other diseases and the welfare of the entire community.

There is a much stronger argument to ensure that younger but vulnerable do receive support to minimise their risk of contracting Covid. Societies only work harmoniously if the needs of the entire community are reflected in behaviours adopted.

Selfish views being expresed by many posters on both sides of the argument do not take the debate forward.

As a final thought, even without a vaccine, Covid may be but another disease like measles, chicken pox, and other ailments (of old).

In 20 years time the elderly and vulnerable to Covid will have either passed on or survived. The young will mostly routinely be infected in their early years and (big assumption) generally have immunity for later life!

 

[RobinBHM]

@RobinBHM

Sorry but you are wrong, the facts speak for themselves, C19 is nothing like Spanish Flu and the young are not affected in anywhere near the same way.

Please avoid strawman logical fallacies, I didn't claim it was the same, an said as bad and backed up by a report published in a scientific journal.